the Projectors Lament | HumanDesign.com

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

I don't get bitter often these days

But today something stirred

I didn't want to give my opinion or advice - i held back - but hinted at what I could see

the situation is one close to my heart so in this case its not just me seeing the situation - and waiting til asked - I do have an emotional investment

i didn't make a big thing - i very briefly voiced a couple of thoughts and double checked that the two people involved where happy with their descision

then I had to walk away

-------

my question is this - and perhaps I am being too superstitious or expecting my strategy and authority to yeild perfect results -

if these people won't listen to me - am i in the wrong place ?

superprojector
Posts: 46
Joined: 2007-01-16

your time of birth

I sent you an e-mail asking for the time of birth you forgot to send me...hope you've got it...regards

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

yo SuperProjector

so to paraphrase so far

to invert space and time is to apply yourself to expanding consciousness as opposed to building a worldly empire

which leads to the simple question - what about money

your answer I assume is be "receptive" #2 yin K'un -

ie the hermit does not worry about societies customs

[or any impending totallitarian police state - not my fight...]

to be or not to be - that is the question...

keep it simple

worry not like the flowers and the birds...

diy dentistry etc

superprojector
Posts: 46
Joined: 2007-01-16

let's try another way

dear Pluto...
I am getting nowhere in trying to help you and I do not like it....
I do not know how old you are but I've got this hunch: I believe you to be under a major Saturn transit.
Saturn transits bring this feelings you've got
"Saturn transits are often accompanied by a feeling f being apprehended in time, of being stuck or inmobilised"....
I believe you could find lots of clues in a small book called:
Saturn in transit.
by Erin Sullivan
(Arkana contemporary astrology)
you do not know to know astrology to understand it at all and you could certainly identify the archetypes which are been awaken in your life.
I believe you can find it in amazone...
just let me know if you get somewhere with it

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

let's try another way

saturn - waking up to the reality of cause and effect - and in this case the power of waiting - which isn't quite the "get a hair cut and a job" saturn lesson...

more like don't get a hair cut and don't get a job....

i dunno i think I'v got every transit ever pluto this and neptune that - the energies just seem so contradictory - then the lesson to wait

that bizarre - you must face up to this energy - contradicted with - wait and do nothing....

its against all the modern succes guru BS and more in line with old school alchemy in the "crucible"

i guess all i can do is laugh in the face of fate

if someone asks me for advice it is usually very easy to see the situation...

but i can't see a proactive "step" for me - and if I could - I'm sposed to be waitin right

am I afraid of being a hermit or afraid of society - or neither - if the energy is meant to be stagnant - fine - it's all in the breathing

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

let's try another way

saturn - waking up to the reality of cause and effect - and in this case the power of waiting - which isn't quite the "get a hair cut and a job" saturn lesson...

more like don't get a hair cut and don't get a job....

i dunno i think I'v got every transit ever pluto this and neptune that - the energies just seem so contradictory - then the lesson to wait

that bizarre - you must face up to this energy - contradicted with - wait and do nothing....

its against all the modern succes guru BS and more in line with old school alchemy in the "crucible"

i guess all i can do is laugh in the face of fate

if someone asks me for advice it is usually very easy to see the situation...

but i can't see a proactive "step" for me - and if I could - I'm sposed to be waitin right

am I afraid of being a hermit or afraid of society - or neither - if the energy is meant to be stagnant - fine - it's all in the breathing

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

let's try another way

would you look at that - saturn opposite saturn

to be honest it seems like the last x # of years has had some heavy planetary doodad - a coupla years back a huge mars pluto action stirring at one end and saturn limiting at the other

yes yet another lesson in waiting and learning to love saturn

superprojector
Posts: 46
Joined: 2007-01-16

for pluto

dear, let's try one thing, try asking the administrator for my e-mail address and write me an e-mail. I have been trying to contact the administrator but have not been successful. I am willing to look into your transits, since they give you lots of info you can not find in HD.
If you do not succeed with that, and you want to write here your date of birth I will look into your astrological transits as well.

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

super P

contact me on

grogancorp[at]gmail.com

substitute [at] for the apropriate sign

thanks

i found something about saturn and confronting it

tho confronting is like instigating....

i feel saturn on my back - i just don't know WTF i'm supposed to be confronting

i feel i have explored my natal saturn in pisces to know it well enough from both sides - and thereby "confronted" it

if saturn is asking me to give up all ambition and go for the wandering Taoist thing - fine

if its tellin me to make a plan for worldly succes - fine

I'd just like to know what it actually is i'm supposed to be confronting / addressing here

camac

Posts: 99
Joined: 2004-03-16

wrong place?

"if these people won't listen to me - am i in the wrong place ?"

It sounds like its time for non-attachment. Emotional investment or not, everyone has their own path and we can only hope they 'choose' one with less suffering or resistance. Being in the wrong place is not the issue. I have found, and I know others have as well, results are out of our control. You voiced your thoughts and that is all that you can do.

Craig

4/6 Mental Projector right angle cross of (long winded) Explanation

Craig

4/6 Mental Projector right angle cross of (long winded) Explanation

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

the Projectors Lament

"listen, you sound truly adorable, and do not get me wrong it is your plutonian nature."

LOL

"Would you tell us why you call yourself Pluto?"

pluto in the 64 - pluto squre transits etc

rebirth thru addressing confusion ?

"I do get you tottaly."

that could be useful

"You wrestling with the money issue and the fact that we are supposed to look after ourselves by doing physically the opposite: not looking for it!"

yeh i've been trying that too

but it has yet to bring results - but I'm game

"And I see you being a man (did I get it properly? I believe you have written that somewhere earlier) and having to be dependant, how difficult could that be for you to take."

it is somewhat of a philosophical challenge to not see it as 'immasculating"

one is forced to be the wizard rather than the hunter

if that makes sense

" It is very difficult for me as a woman, VERY DIFFICULT. It took me many years to accept and to surrender to it.""

not to be sexist - but surrender is a more Yin attribute

"I have one more clue for you. But it should come through a question:
What do you do with your "me" time....with your "heremit" time?
I could ask it in a more direct way:
Do you engage at all in inverting time/space/energy?
Believe me, It is the way of recognition."

yeh I hear you - i have applied it to some degree with results

do you have any hints on this - i have enough of a foundation in this area

but the day to day realities of it - well I just need more practice

i do not have the system tuned up yet

thanks for the replies - any wisdom is considered

superprojector
Posts: 46
Joined: 2007-01-16

for pluto

Pluto...just a hinch, maybe a challenge...maybe as a projector just wanting to be recognised by my wisdom (do not judge me please!)here it goes:

Why is it that we, women, find very important (and challenging, sexy and very much the "thing to do")to acquire Yang qualities, while males find degrading to develop Ying qualities?
Isn't wholeness the capability to be totally Ying and Yang?
What's wrong with surrendering?

By the way inverting space/time and energy is a super Ying process...and it does take surrendering...or not?

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

for pluto

superprojector (Add)
Posts: 31
Joined: 2007-01-16
for pluto
" (do not judge me please!)here it goes:'

not a problem

" while males find degrading to develop Ying qualities?"

hmmm -
physically - all men are created women then at day 24? the first testesterone hits and starts the change - maybe at some level we know we were started from the same stuff?

spiritually - i guess we are designed to surrender

i guess this all needs some defining I didn't mean to hint that it was degrading - it was more - at some level it is in YIN design and the challenge is like a projector learning to wait - there is also a challenge in yang design - a tempering of nerves - so to speak

my concern is - the key to design is becoming what you are - the fear of something yang becoming yin - is the fear of trying to be something you are not designed to be - havn't we all decided to BE what we are - not - what we are not

but having said that - we are all designed to be receptive to the "divine" or the tao - something - and we all have differing balances of yin and yang in the make up

but no, personally i'm not afraid from any social BS ... and the thought of actually rising to that rarely attained height of male wisdom - where one can actually appreciate the wisdom of womanhood is a true goal of malehood IMO

and to re itterate - i don't judge you on this - it is worth double checking - for the social BS role BS is out there en mass

consider matter and anti matter - if yin is receptive to yang - then in an "inverse" way yang is similarly receptive to yin

"Isn't wholeness the capability to be totally Ying and Yang?
What's wrong with surrendering?"

nothing - if it is TIME to surrender - if it is part of who you are to surrender

if it is NOT time to surrender - and / or NOT who you are to surrender ...

as I say the reason I like design it is about BECOMING who you are - not ASSUMING who you are...

but i hear your point - and have been gettin #2 pretty regularly - so yea - I'm open to the wisdom of surrendering at the moment - in the hope that it is TIMELY or will lead me to see who I am better...

i guess - just to cap the socio steotype subject - surfers [often male] need to surrender to the wave in order to ride it...

"By the way inverting space/time and energy is a super Ying process...and it does take surrendering...or not?"

well this is where I am open to your guidance and probably still yet to get on your wavelength

to be semantic - i assume you mean the term "poetically"...

to give a real world example

i am surrendering to this time of waiting - yet the money runs out - so I am "open" or "receptive" to ways of topping it up

i see my friend is over-worked
he has a nice job with fresh air and excercise - that wouldn't intrude on me too much ...
i put it out there - that i could help him when he is over worked and ease his load - and get a bit of pocket money
next time i see him - a mutual friend has mentioned this - and he is offering me a year "contract' [still light work load - a day month]
i stop - go - hmmm - not quite what i envisioned - consult the spleen - nothing - say i'll sleep on it
wake up this morning - ask "do i want this job"
spleen goes "no"

now i'm not sure how this fits in with inverting space and time - but "friend-A" noted i had "created" the opportunity - but I note my spleen was not satisfied

further i have the "head' challenge

logic says - here's an opportunity - minimal stress, time etc etc, why not?
spleen didn't tell me why

maybe it was a practise run

but if I "created" it - then is it SURRENDER ?

back to the earlier topic - i know i can keep my "maleness" within the act of surrender - but it is a journey consciously letting go of logic etc etc

the risk that at the end of this journey i could wake up living in a cardboard box going - hmm that was a waste of time - logic forces me to consider this...

the only reassurance is a sense of contentment in feeling into what you are becoming - yourself...

but still - the yang in me wants to KNOW this journey will be fruitful - i can focus the yang on aplying myself to the task at hand - which is to become receptive- not a problem

but it is "inverting" my energies - more than inverting space time

like i say - i'm willing to take a shot at this - i mean the world could end tommorrow - what do i really have to lose - right?

but to take 7 yrs sitting doin nothin with the idea that - all the things "normal" people are out "working" for will miraculously come to me...

its a risk - i just wanna make sure i'm not doin it wrecklesslly as some twisted rebellion against modern society - that i'm not fighting the river - you get the picture

but more than that - to focus on the positive not the negetive - i need some guidence - i've done the intuition thing and its lead me to new pastures in the past

but this is BIGGER

there is only waiting

and so far no discernable result

and only the further opportunity of more waiting - with potentially no result

and back to the male female thing - a woman would look at a hunter and say - we need food shelter get me pregnant - so the hunter does that

i have to say - just wait another 7 yrs and i may then become a hunter

you say - why can't men surrender - i have women looking at me going - what is this man surrendering to - why isn't he surrendering to - getting a job, a house, a social stereotype

just what is he waiting for...

and tho the smart ones may "sense" something on the horizon - it is just a ghost of the future

any clearer ?

maybe i'm just hooked up on fullfiling the "provider" model - it's strong in a rural community
if i am letting it GO

then what am I

perhaps you don't understand how "strange" it is for a male to risk being "functionless" in the eyes of his community

superprojector
Posts: 46
Joined: 2007-01-16

for pluto

finally I am back again..lost my way-so to speak-...so you write:
"my concern is - the key to design is becoming what you are - the fear of something yang becoming yin - is the fear of trying to be something you are not designed to be - havn't we all decided to BE what we are - not - what we are not

but having said that - we are all designed to be receptive to the "divine" or the tao - something - and we all have differing balances of yin and yang in the make up"

I guess you answered yourself, because Pluto, you are not just Yang as you well indicated.

It is the idea of Ying that frightens many men, since the feminine has been so degraded for centuries, Ying is culturally not well appreciated and fears are coming from tribal/cultural issues...Ying is the uncontrollable part and Yang wants to control (in astrology you can see that in the Virgo/Piscis archetypes)...uncontrollable things frighten control freaks, whcih are so identified with their Yang part, but this identification is at a conscious level, this is no identification of who they are necessarily...

I used to be a control freak and I am a woman, I was a totally Yang-identified woman. Surrendering has been the must frightening state of consciousness I have been in.. and it still is...
For westerners in general surrendering is very frightening and is not sexy.

To move forwards...I do not mean inverting space and time in a poetical way at all..I do mean it!
Let me explain myself or at least try to...When you do some research you'll see how many people claim to expand their consciusness and they all name their processes in a different way...The naming game...For instance, think of Ra and his claims of "having heard a voice"
I believe them because I also engage in spiritual activities (to give it a name), but what I know is that we have no words to describe consciousness processes.
For instance "hearing a voice" does not necessarily means hearing a voice, after all the spiritual entity would need a mechanical throat in order to produce a voice and in such case it would not be an spiritual entity but a human being....So, yes I do have a problem with incorrect names because it confuses us (or is it just me?). Technically we need correct names for these processes so that we do not confuse them with physical processes. They are not physical, they do not belong in time and space.

Having said that I do respect Ra's way of identifying what hapened to him, but I know it is not literally "a voice". I understand the need to explain his reality.

The same happens to me with my "inverting time and space" definition.
I must say to the benefit of my definition that there is no physical process which could be defined by like that. But inversion describes a physical process anyway and there we go again.
However....Is it literally that? Is it literaly inverting time and space?
I do not know.
I have however asked for an indication as to what is it that I engage-in when expanding my consciusness. I have asked for a definition of the process and with the time (5 years maybe) I have been given this definition, the way information is "given" to me personally.
According to my guidance, or acccording to my higher self, or according to whatever entity or entities communicate with me, this is what happens or this is their way to satisfy my curiosity. With my doubtful mind I tend to believe that this is what I can grasp of what it is.
This is maybe the closest definition of what happens, but since we humans are so stupid, we have to define things in stupid ways, so that we can communicate with each other and make sense of things...
But in order to say what it is not I can definitely say that my conciousness experiences do not belong in the abstract process. I can definitely say that it is not a logic process either.
Within the HD's model it could fit in the Individual process, indeed. But again I have found no technical definition of those individual processes so you have no reference.
You just know that it is not a thought process.

So, using the HD language and moving withing this HD reality I could say that I can not describe for you what "inverting time and space" means so that you can repeat it and experiment with it.

What do I do in my consciousness trips?
By going in my consciousness expansion I do help in my own evolution, dear Pluto but themes of the collective have always being a main issue.

Before knowing HD I used to talk about my collective preocupation in spiritual circles and everybody always put me down.
Well you see everyone was busy with him/herself and collective issues was weird.

It is not about helping others, like all these other spiritual people say. It is not about "Healing the Earth" as if I am healed and the Earth is sick. It is always through my own darkness that collective issues are presented to me.

How does it happen? How would I caracterise my "time and space inversion"?
-It all goes in a non-linear manner. It is totally simultaneous or chaotic if you want.
-It does not involve actively thinking.
Lately however I have realised that I can be thinking and -at the same phisical time- being inverting. I have done this for a long time but only lately I am aware of the duality in physical time.
- I can not actively invert. I have to surrender and it happens or it doesn't.
Then, when I think and invert at the same time I am only actively thinking and the inverting just happens to me. It feels a little invasive by-the way because by now the intensity of both processes is almost the same and they interfere with each other. It takes lots of energy to keep them both going.
-Inverting does not involve projecting into the future. In fact projecting is negative to inverting.

When I avoid making space and time in order to "invert them" my life literally stops, nothing moves.

I can say the following:
You are a heremit, dear Pluto. A Heremit by our human definition is somebody who withdraws, somebody who "meditates" somebody who spends his time in solitude. What for? It is up-to-you to find out. Your task on Earth is related to that.
How many individual channels have you got?
The divinatory meaning of the heremit in tarot cards (important to me because they are ancient and because they define human archetypes very efficently) relates to times where the person is subjected to being isolated in order to gain insights. It also relates to the need for understanding the limitations of time. There are images that talk about the "ilumination of the inner world when the outer one is dark".
I like this last one since iluminating what is usually dark because of the darkening of what is ussually enlightened resonates with my definition of "inverting space", but as you see the entire archetype is full of references to time and space.
The heremit in the tarot cards also refers to a time when one can discover the resources that slitude can offer.
and I would say to you: Pluto go and "heremit" in your inner spaces and see what happens to your time. Is that fair?
You are a heremit for a life time not just for a while.

I was forced (by my own nature) to become a HEREMIT before I ever found HD. By the time I found HD I had already come to terms with my heremit nature and had been engaging in "time and space inversion" for many years.
However I believed that for me it was a temporary thing. Thanks to HD I now know that it is my life style.

I still think that it is not confortable, however there is an undeniable comfort in the life I live now. Never knowing exactly my direction and very-very busy with my inner realities.

superprojector
Posts: 46
Joined: 2007-01-16

for pluto

I try my best anyway...
My idea of projectors' place on Earth is an umbrella concept related to our unique task, which seems to be specific. It is kind of a virtual "place" since it does not involves only geography.
This "place" can of course be a geographical one, but it can be a function one plays, or a type of interaction one needs to master -among other things- or more likely a combination of several of these things.
That's how I see it: as an "umbrella" which definitely involves a sort of behavior.

Then, every time we go through an experience which brings us recognition, there is an indication of something important for us to recognise. An important Aha! -I would say.
These indications are clues, related to that thing we are here to do.
So, I do not believe every recognition to be an indication of us being technically "at our final place". However there is something important we need to recognise in order for us to adjust our way towards our "place". Or perhaps there is something we need to take with us in our journey, or there is something we need to learn, a behavior or a technical knowledge. You could indeed think that temporarily that could be "our place" and then I will just have to agree with you.
So, now, inverting the equation (I am a physicist not a consultant) I could apply it to your case, to your original question.
Does lack of recognition means you are out-of-place?

If I were you I would recognise that lack-of-recognition to be an indication of:
- that situation not adding anything to my journey (so, yes I would be "out-of-place")..or
- my need for learning to "wait-for-the-invitation" (one could consider the "not-waiting" an indication of being "out-of-place". Or not).

However in both situations there would be a learning related to one's task on Earth:
- in the first one, it would mean that situation not being of one's business (a clear indication of go on with one's life)
- in the second case it would mean the need to really learn the waiting game, which is indeed very related projectors' journey.
So, are you out-of-place?
Depending of what it means to you this being "out-of-place".
If "place" means to you a physical place or an external situation only, then yes, you then would be out of place.
If "place" involves for you an inner process, then no, you would not be "out-of-place", because you would be learning in awareness.
To me, learning to identify one's task on Earth is not necessarily an expression of being "out-of-place". The learning process is part of us being projectors and finding our place.
To me, learning the game between waiting-for-an-invitation and just letting-other-inner-urges-to- play-out (as your emotions in that case) is part of the learning process, of how to better exist being a projector. Of how to balance my inner energies with my goal in life.

I deeply believe now, that not-getting-recognised is just an important clue for learning how-to-be a projector. Once we can handle this lack of recognition at this level, it stops being an insult, or a deep pain....
Then there is indeed this statement that WE really need to learn the waiting game, because meanwhile projectors do not wait, nothing will happen.

I am afraid this mental process could look to you as if I am playing with words.
I am not. This is truly what comes out of my believe and my very natural way-of-processing information.
Hope to have been helpful.

64pluto
Posts: 44
Joined: 2007-04-10

for pluto

superprojector (Add)

-- ok - I'm happy to be led today - for i feel a liitle in a "waiting" crisis...
being an i ching type - it has been telling me to wait for quite some time...
now i have just been given an opportunity, but there is no money involved - which means i will have to spend money - which is unwise for a waiting projector - and also the lack of money makes me "feel" unrecognised - even tho I am not a money-motivated person as such... but i have been waiting so long now that only an oportunity with money is feasible - which is kinda good because it sets a value to the level of recognition required... but i tell you - to the untrained eye this waiting til broke is not for the faint hearted and not worth talking about to others who would consider it "irrational"

So, now, inverting the equation (I am a physicist not a consultant) I could apply it to your case, to your original question.

every good consultant is merely a guide in the art of "cause and effect" for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...

like wait long enough and you will be broke and people will think you are insane
;p

but at least you'll know you've been recognised...

--------------------

Does lack of recognition means you are out-of-place?

-- as the i ching tells me - there are no opportunities right now -

-----------

To me, learning to identify one's task on Earth is not necessarily an expression of being "out-of-place". The learning process is part of us being projectors and finding our place.
To me, learning the game between waiting-for-an-invitation and just letting-other-inner-urges-to- play-out (as your emotions in that case) is part of the learning process, of how to better exist being a projector. Of how to balance my inner energies with my goal in life.

---- i agree - as a hermit opportunist - when there is no opportunity - i hermit out - no probs - and again the i ching says not to worry about preparing for the next opportunity - which wuld make the waiting easier - and give that false sense of security and an appearance of rationality to the outside world - not that I'm a keeping up appearances sort - but people like to feel you "fit in" - it makes them feel more comfortable

------------------

--this is what i am wrestling with at the moment - the lack of money in the last invitation - i don't take it as an insult - i like helping people...

but often i feel an opprtunity is presented so we learn to say no - ie define what it is we should accept and turn down - it just seems bizarre - when one grows up and understands what self sufficiancy is - to know that to BE yourself you are realient on someone else to get of their butt to create your dream job

as a cause and effect physicist I assume you can relate to my wrestling with the logic here that says - the more "internally" self sufficient you become - the more externally reliant on others you will become . . .

it seems a cruel fate

worse case scenario you have to have the faith to survive with no money and if you lose this "faith" you open yourself up to getting sick because you undermine your self worth

another "type" with self worth can go out and act on it and get money in the bank

i am asked to wait - my self worth depends on me NOT looking after my own needs

and to have a gift with logic and insight and cause and effect

don't get me wrong - i feel it in my bones - it is almost the - make fear your ally concept - but i'm not one for wrecklessness and some days waiting for others to recognise you feels wreckless - even the logic says it is... especially in todays environment...

--------------------

-- all good - as i say i'm open to insight here - to me this witing game is akin - entering the demon region - small men shoud not attempt this - so ANY relevent information is well recieved - i assure you

i feel for the non projectors who have to watch me go thru this and wonder what i'm waiting for - and i can empathise - because as someone who requires others to recognise me before i can fulfill my potential - well how do i put this - the world doesn't seem to be very good at the "skill" of "recognising" at the moment - so I could be screwed just by timing and the trend of the era

superprojector
Posts: 46
Joined: 2007-01-16

for pluto

listen, you sound truly adorable, and do not get me wrong it is your plutonian nature.
Would you tell us why you call yourself Pluto? I am very plutonian too, or scorpionic if you prefer, even when I am a Librean. Through your honest and open struggle I can clearly see your tremendous scorpinic strength at work.
Very plutonian.
God bless you! (whatever it is the notion you've got of "God")
I do get you tottaly.
You wrestling with the money issue and the fact that we are supposed to look after ourselves by doing physically the opposite: not looking for it!
And I see you being a man (did I get it properly? I believe you have written that somewhere earlier) and having to be dependant, how difficult could that be for you to take. It is very difficult for me as a woman, VERY DIFFICULT. It took me many years to accept and to surrender to it.
I have one more clue for you. But it should come through a question:
What do you do with your "me" time....with your "heremit" time?
I could ask it in a more direct way:
Do you engage at all in inverting time/space/energy?
Believe me, It is the way of recognition.