Hi. I just came about HDS few momnths ago while researching the art of mandalas. My first reaction was quite negative.I could not believe that people were so happily accepting a predesigned self and one that supported a somewhat fascist hierarchy of a superior design(manifestors/heroes/natural leaders), a not so superior(projectors/bosses/natural managers), special(reflectors/priests/sages) and least of all the majority of people(generators/buildrers/cosmic batteries) who are here to be controled ,led , managed by the more superior designs.
I hated the notion and I still do.However when i took a look at the theory and view it as a plain theory ,without the HDS interpretation I saw few patterns of my own and , for what is worth, here they are.
I don't believe there are energy and non energy beigns. We are all energy beigns .The first major division is of people with defined sacral and not defined sacral.The main difference is that those with defined sacral have an inner confirmation mechanism that reasonates through their existence,hence they get satisfaction from their action within themselves(p.e. if they paint a beautiful painting they get immediate gratificationwithin just by looking at it) and also seek blame within when things go wrong( they ask"What did I do wrong"),so the get frustrated.
The people with a non defined sacral do not have that inner confirmation working for them concistently.They seek confirmation from their environment(when they paint that beautiful paintingregardless what they think ,they need people to admire it in order to feel gratified) and also when things go wrong they blame their environment therefore they get angry or bitter , it is someone elses fault .
Both groups are separated to those with defined throats and undefined throats.Those with defined throats are able to verbalize(manifest) their feelings/opinions /needs more easily and conventionally than those with the undefined ones.On the other hands those with the undefined throats will be more creative(since the process is not concistent) and they might be able to expess themselves by song /music or the arts.
There is more but I have to go now.Tell me what you think.
:lol: :wink: hi there fellow humans and hude freaks ,i find it amazing how some people think that they know it all,when i believe and feel that whatever the truth maybe ....so far i have awonderfull time living my design and making SOOO MANY people happy so senyp-ho come back to this forum 5years from now and we see who gets what he needs and not what he wants in a great way
and i must say i been to so many seminars in my life but never ever ever did i had such an unbelievable spiritual and practical and multidimensional experience last april for 19 days at the tour of eden
what a fantastic totally upgrading the software time it was ...
i have nothing else to say but PLUMEAU monsiuer RA [i do not care what name ugo by but if you really stretch hard n you sayRAAAAA all the deconditionig leaves...
and by the way ...people call me GOD hihihihihihi
todeloo and okidoki!!
Hi Delia,
I very much enjoyed your post and appreciated the details and thorouhness (it must have been a 34/20 process javascript:emoticon(':D')
It's good to see people aren't just blindly following the words or, worse yet, trying to fit themselves into an external mold. I find that looking at my world and myself through the lens of HD and experimenting to understand both more fully is enriching.
I really liked what you said about 'looking around' for the cause of the stress, finding a possible cause, and taking some action to deal with it. I do the same sort of thing - and even if I am wrong in assuming that someone has a certain center defined, I find I benefit from interacting with them in a more conscious way.
Thanks for sharing.
Synepho,
I find Human Design useful to identify what one can rely on. For instance, I have the channel 48-16 defined, which I interpret as meaning that my body is designed to consistently channel/express that energy (develoment and sharing of deep talents and skills). To me this means that I can rely on the fact that I will feel fulfilled if I focus my life on learning new talents and skills, learning them deeply, and, when I feel I'm ready, and feel like interacting with others, then I also have the opportunity to feel fulfilled by sharing my talents with others. This is something I can rely on. I also have other defined centres and channels that I can rely on. I know as soon as I got my Human Design reading, that what I was told was true. I felt it. It confirmed what I was already starting to be aware of but was never chrystalized before.
Before I knew what my defined centres were, I tried lots of different ways to feel fulfilled, but never felt fulfilled. Knowing what your defined centres are is useful to focus your energies and activities on things that are "sure to bring fulfillment". That is why it is nice to know your definition.
HD is meant to be practical - you are meant to use it in a way to enhance your life; I can give you a good example of how it has governed some of my decisions:
I have the Hanging gate 7, which is the gate of leadership to guide and order society. Everyone at my work has always seen my potential to be a leader, but I have always felt I could not cope with the stress of taking on leadership responsibilities. When I studied Human Design, which suggested that I am an emotionally defined manifesting generator that benefits from waiting to respond until I get things on my terms and conditions, and suggested that I have specific channels and centres that are defined, this led me to put two and two together. With respect to my career, I interpreted my chart to mean that I would only feel fulfilled as a leader if the following were true:
- If I am asked/invited to lead a group of people who recognize my talent and skills (ie. openly praise me and say thanks and are appreciative etc etc etc; I have the projector channel 48-16 and have a deep need to be recognized for this aspect of me)
- If this group of people gives me the freedom to communicate minimally (I have channel 34-20 and like to just turn my awarenesses into action with minimal need for communicating
-If there are at least a couple of people in this group who I respond to "naturally or sacrally" to being in an "intimate relationship" (i.e. I am naturally drawn to them and don't have to force myself to enjoy their company and start conversations etc.) (I have the channel 59-6 which is the design of production for the good of the tribe, based on an energy of dispersion of conflict and barriers through intimate relationships)
Based on this interpretation I started being demanding at work.
Well, actually, let me go back a step. Based on learning that I am a manifesting generator, I firsly committed to my career as a health economist in the pharmaceutical industry. Whilst I had been humming and haaing about whether this was the correct career for me, and had been weighing the pros and cons, and some days felt like quitting and on other days loved it for quite some time, learning Human Design was the final clincher to make me decide that indeed I do want to commit to this career. Firstly because much of the work is rewarding for me, and secondly because there is a great shortage in this field, and it would be almost impossible for me to "wait to respond" and to test the theory that "if an emontional generator says no, those who want to take advantage of their unlimited well of energy will only try harder to attract them to work for them". I figure, in today's society, an emotional generator can best experiment with their strategy if employed in a field where this is a shortage.
So, back to my story of my development of my leadership potential...I continued my career, and implemented the learnings that I made through studying Human Design as described above. So when I notice myself really stressed at work, I made the assumption, based on HD, that it is not my stress, and I looked around for who was stressed, and based on their behaviour I took a guess that it was my product manager. Thus I put in extra effor to communicate with them, and educate them and provide them with the information that might "calm their anxiety". Sure enough, their behaviour changed (less stressed) and I also felt less stressed. So you see it was very good for me to assume, based on HD teachings, that the stress was not mine, because it was a much better strategy for me to help someone else cope with their stress than to try to solve mine, which according to HD isn't even my stress. I don't think the stress would have gone away if I had assumed it was mine.
Next, back to developing my leadership potential. I am not a manager yet , or anything, but, being in a field where there is a shortage, I am constantly provided with the opportunity to take on bigger projects with more and more responsibility. Armed with "blind faith" as you call it, that the best strategy for me is to wait to respond, I experimented all last year with saying no to projects and responsibilities that I do not respond to (due to the fact that I have been doing yoga for years, I actually can feel a response in my belly/sacral area to things). This is of course not usual in the corporate world, but I was so intrigued by the fact that I really can feel a physical response or non-response, as described by Human Design theory, I was motivated to experiment with other HD theories. With all my waiting to respond, I still continued to be offered better and better projects. Now with the project I have been working on since January, I am taking on more and more leadership role because I the team I am working for is very appreciative and I feel like they recognize my talents and skills. And I they seem to generally accept my "conditions" that are right for me. For example:
-when I felt myself angry because of all the questions and comments I kept getting....when all I wanted to do was get on with my work.... I informed the team that they were "holding me back" and slowing me down and that I would prefer to set up a system whereby I update them once every 2 weeks in a lunch time meeting, and otherwise team members should collect their questions and comments for that time (other than the three people on the team that I talk to everyday because we have naturally intimate relationships)
Thus I am currently happy with the increased leadership responsibilities I have taken on. I do not feel stressed and feel appreciated. I think it would have taken me at least 10 years to "figure out what terms and conditions I need to be a leader". I really believe that without Human Design knowledge I would have fallen into the trap of "jumping" at the first opportunity to take on leadership responsibilities in order to develop my career, and would not have been aware of my "lack of sacral response" to the first few opportunities that were offered to me. I believe I would be stressed and could have ended up on a team that does not recognize my talents and show its appreciation like my current team does. This was a true experiment gone right. For me, the predictive power of Human Design is powerful and adds a lot of value to my life. This is what is meant that HD is meant to be used as a practical tool.
I have shared this story because I have read all your postings and it seems like an inefficient expenditure of your energy. Have you considered actually studying your chart, and experimenting with it, so see how it could add value to your life? Do you have any stories to share of "failed human design experiments". This would prove to me that Human Design is not right for you. But your theoretical arguments and counterarguments really don't mean anything to me. Unless you have tried to implement some of the predictive elements of the theory, and have clear examples that they didn't work for you, I can't see the point of you being "anti-human design".
Don't forget, that it is nice to be able to rely on your consistent energies. And no, this does not mean that your life is pre-determined. Since everyone has open centres, there is plenty of non-predetermined action in life. I have four open centres, thus I attract a wealth of different energies into my life. What is consistent is my focus on developing talent and skills that I respond to sacrally (such as playing the violin) and my focus on interacting in intimate relationships, both very fulfilling, much more so than the things I focused on before I studied Human Design (making a big social network and playing sports, which I generally do not even have a sacral response to!). It is comforting for me to know that I should say no to leadership opportunities that do not meet my criteria (yes my criteria were selected based on human design theory, but that certainly worked better than Briggs Meyer theory or all the other theories that exist). Since everyone has open centres, there is always room for lots of new experiences and growth. Those experiences may be more enjoyable though if you enter into them correctly, and you set the right criteria from the outset, and it is definitely worth experimenting with HD to see how it helps enter into things correctly and know your preferences and your true response to offers. I have never enjoyed work as much as I do now since I started studying human design and started using the bits of it that apply to my life in the here and now.
It seems a bit like you are trying to get people to agree with your cynical view of HD, but you haven't offered any tools in its place that could guide my decision-making and provide me with the confidence to trust myself, admire myself and love myself like Human Design does. What is the alternative you are proposing? I've studies Buddhism, I've studies Taoism, I've read many self-help books, I've even read the Bible, I've spent many hours over coffee lamenting to my friends about my problems and have even had a few appointments with therapists at various times in my life. Human Design has really given me sharp insights into myself, that, for whatever reason, I immediately recognized to be true, and work for me. Also how did you get to know yourself and how did you learn what the best manner is for you to make decisions? Are you satisfied with your life?
I hope you try to find something useful in Human Design or move on and study some other philosophies that may guide you to peace and happiness. Note also that I've already invested some money into buying books and taking courses, and know I have some knowledge that serves me well. I do not depend on continual visits to a therapist, or constant catch-up with my friends boring each other with our problems. I can solve them and move on and enjoy life more. So for me it has been a good investment. Whether I go all the way and spend lots of money to become an analyst is yet to be determined, but certainly investment into learning the basics has been as valuable as my investment into my university degree. Both have given me tools and knowledge that will make my life easier over the remaining duration of my life.
Cheers,
Delia
Uh oh... I'm about to cause a new controversy here.
As I think about things like incarnation crosses (is a 10/15|17/18 better than a 27/28|41/30?) / profiles (are all 1/3s so narrow minded or 4/1 so fixated?) / centers (is it better to have a defined center that "generates energy" or a center that is open and can adapt to any situation eg a channeller of energy?) and type (is an 45/21 ego manifestor "more powerful than a 10/34/57 g-center splenic generator or a projector with gates 38 and 39 (provocation and fighting) defined?)
My favorite: Can a triple-split manifestor act faster more consistently than a single definition generator? Can a ego manifestor act faster than a projector with the 20/10/57 defined and 48/16? Will those activations in the projector allow them to come with solutions via their integration channels (brainwave direction) and their natural connection talent and depth to faster than the 45/21 manifestor can naturally move? Even if they follow their general strategies, I think in real world observation, you will be hard pressed to clearly differentiate them with a generalized stereotype.
Why? Because the system of Human Design builds from a simple premise inductively into an infinite variety. A center that responds can respond lightning fast, often seemingly faster than a type that acts.
Now we will never know the answers to this unless there were people who will take the time and do a large scale experiment of these questions so that the philosophy of Human Design and it's axioms can be seen to be valid in any and all cases and what conditions change the assumptions of types.
Another problem here is with all self-help type of things. Most people it attracts have some sorts of problems and they see their path to self acceptance as something everyone else needs to go through. Our experiences colors our perceptions and that is why you here Ra Uru Hu's social darwinistic tone to the determintistic view of genetics. If he saw genes in the way the ancients saw it then he would not see them in terms of either this or that. None of the other systems of human design, even the i'ching, are black and white.
I know this is an old post and know that MANY responed to it. But having responded to other topics within this thread, I wanted to respond to the original question with my opinions and insights.
Let's just say that I have been an astrologer enthuiast for over 15 years and have gathered many birthdates into a database and months after I came to learn about Human Design, did over 200 charts of family and friends. Because I already knew much of their history and I learned Human Design through not only Ra Uru Hu vis-a-vis Human Design America but through Chethan Parkyn, Eleanor Haspel-Portner, and compared it to my and others knowledge of the component systems (i'Ching, Chakras, Qabala, Astrology, Genetics), I was able to compare their lives as it related to their type (at first through standard Human Design and then through the Multidimensional Design System taught by the Unified Life Sciences).
Boy did I get some fun insights.
I saw a friend who was a reflector who I'd challenge anyone to call a weak person in both physical and mental terms. I saw many people who were generators who were so natural being themselves that Human Design would never interest them. I saw very confident people of all types. I saw manifestors who were wimps and projectors who were bullies and generators who were busy not being busy and vis-a-versa. I saw people who were open throats speak far more eloquently and able to act respond quicker than defined throats to motors.
I saw in these charts of people I knew, many of them very intimately, varying levels of human societal conditioning, some negative but many not so, meaning that they held on to what they naturally were in terms of their type/profile/crosses in spite of pressures of the larger groups they belonged to.
Although very far from being scientific like the validation done for Ra by groups like the Unified Life Sciences a while back, my family and friends gave me a very good insight into how their designs played out in not only theory or axiom or philosophy but in the lives of real people.
So in terms of learning the information, I did not learn it to improve my life, although it's understanding helped me understand many of my motivations of what I naturally did in spite of anyone and everything and form some theories and theoretical premises of my own. I learned it out of curiousity and interests frankly in a European using an ancient Aegyptian Name synthesizing a revealed esoteric system using pre-existing ancient non-european mystery spiritual systems. I didn't judge that nor the incredulousness of a having visions of Voices connecting this entire system to him. Many in my family have voices all of the time and continually do so. I saw that, this has some very valid points that needed to be investigated.
When I learned the methods of calculating Multidimensional Design of these same people, I learned a far deeper insight into (according to your school of HDS or MDS it's your deepest conditioning or your natural imprinting) how people's earliest three months after birth (postnatally) affected their designs just as powerfully as their prenatal data did. I saw people who using HDS had no defined G-Center and yet using both Solar and Lunar 88 degree calculations not only gained a defined G-Center but clearly lived that in their lives.
I found was that some people had more power on other layers than others. I saw that some people had designs that had centers with varying levels of activations more like a tesseract than a binary switch meaning some had a stream, others had pulses, and yet others had wells to focus energies.
Using my own understanding I saw that Open (no gates), Undefined (gates activated) and Defined centers (channel activated) are simply varying levels of yin and yang.
My conclusion is that out of a basic premise (types/profiles/crosses/cycles of time/eras) we gain an near infinite variety of life that although tempting to ease the fears of an unmanageable world, cannot begin to explain anything beyond to basic motivations of people, places of things.
I also like Ra originally did after he "got the message" begin to study as to bridge deeper connections of this information and especially start to flesh out the richness of the components of Human Design like the i'Ching, Astrology, Qabbala, Chakras, and modern genetics (which I personally believe is grossly misundertsood of what genes really are and that the ancients didn't know they existed.) as it relates to Human Design. In this process deeper truths will emerge that will need to be explored. One will be able to enter into Human Design using any of these component pieces and fully connect with the other pieces.
For me this path in our new age of leaving the 5th line behind and entering into the era of the 6th line or our celestial age precession through Pisces in the 37th gate entering it's counter-clockwise era of the 55 gate means I can accept the human behind the revelation without meaning the human responsible for it is the revelation.
But one thing I do appreciate, after having to sift through salesman and flamboyancy that is Ra, is that he does speak about experimenting. That's what I and many people have been doing. We may offend the keepers of the Religion but hey... that's okay too.
Hi. I just came about HDS few months ago while researching the art of mandalas. My first reaction was quite negative. I could not believe that people were so happily accepting a predesigned self and one that supported a somewhat fascist hierarchy of a superior design(manifestors/heroes/natural leaders), a not so superior(projectors/bosses/natural managers), special(reflectors/priests/sages) and least of all the majority of people(generators/buildrers/cosmic batteries) who are here to be controled ,led , managed by the more superior designs.I hated the notion and I still do.However when i took a look at the theory and view it as a plain theory ,without the HDS interpretation I saw few patterns of my own and , for what is worth, here they are.
I don't believe there are energy and non energy beigns. We are all energy beigns .The first major division is of people with defined sacral and not defined sacral.The main difference is that those with defined sacral have an inner confirmation mechanism that reasonates through their existence,hence they get satisfaction from their action within themselves(p.e. if they paint a beautiful painting they get immediate gratification within just by looking at it) and also seek blame within when things go wrong( they ask"What did I do wrong"),so the get frustrated.
The people with a non defined sacral do not have that inner confirmation working for them consistently.They seek confirmation from their environment(when they paint that beautiful paintingregardless what they think ,they need people to admire it in order to feel gratified) and also when things go wrong they blame their environment therefore they get angry or bitter , it is someone elses fault .
Both groups are separated to those with defined throats and undefined throats.Those with defined throats are able to verbalize(manifest) their feelings/opinions /needs more easily and conventionally than those with the undefined ones.On the other hands those with the undefined throats will be more creative(since the process is not concistent) and they might be able to expess themselves by song /music or the arts.
There is more but I have to go now.Tell me what you think.
I have no idea what the "correct date" is, but we celebrate July 4, 1776 as the "birth of our nation".
Yes, I'm aware of the date. But it doesn't address a point I was making about a true date versus a celebration date. Many people across the world celebrate a naming cerimony for new borns approximately three months after birth and that date is when the festivals are celebrated. I'm not sure if you are aware that the United States has many layers to it since it was formed. We can look at periods from the first thirteen colonies and map each date that those "states" were incorporated until it reached 48. We can look at dates when pore-USSR Russia "leased Alaska" to the United States and when it annexed Hawaii to make 50 states. It can go on.
In the spirit of investigation, any date we have needs to be accurate in order for the insights we get from it's design analysis to be accurate.
I'll run a few of these dates to see what is shown and run it by what we know about history.
The information I got that said that the United States was a Manifestor nation I pulled from several Human Design sites. But now what from what you saying that by using the Declaration of Independance is a "birth date" poses an interesting dilemma.
Do we consider the United States' birth at the 4 July 1776? Or do we consider it when the Bill of Rights was added? Do we consider it when George Washington was president at 1781 (I might be in error), or do we consider the 8 presidents that preceded Washington in the pre-Declaration of Independance period while Gen. Washington was fighting Britain?
Just musing a bit but perhaps like there are different versions of Astrology for people and nations, Human Design may evolve a new branch that can map a country vis-a-vis an individual.
If you use the signing of the Declaration of Independence as the the time of birh for the USA it's actually a projector entity. Channel 31/7, with the 31 conscious and the 7 unconscious, the channel57/20 all unconscius, the 41/30 all conscious and the 16/48 all conscious. Open sacral, Ego center undefined with 51 unconscious. It's a split definition with emotional authority.
A brief analysis is available at
http://www.earthstarconsulting.com/aboutHDSarticle13.htm
Hussein and Bush both have the 36/35 - they will have whatever experience they feel they need and will share it with the rest of us. Interesting to note that USA 41/30 is the fuel for Bush's 36/35.
Has any one noticed that George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld are Manifestors?
Now... given the the United States is a Manifestor country (historically with it's efforts that colonized the land of the Native peoples)... recent actions are showing perhaps the Manifestor energy out of control?
Sadaam Hussein is elledgely also a Manifestor who met with force that overthrew him. Given that the time of the Manifestor is coming to an end, will these beings (as people of power and as a country) allow for themselves to reliquish their power in the face of a mounting world resistance?
Any thoughts or muses?
Sure some things are true even if inexplicableand myths are our own reflections and interpretations of said truthsuntil rationally understood.But when the time comes to illuminate myths with science the science has to be sound. So far HD failed to produce any sound science to back their statements.The famous " mind blowing" statement that neutrinos have mass before it was scientifically proven doesn't hold much water if one takes under concideration that the neutrino mass was speculated since the 1930's and evidenced but not able to duplicate in 1985.Technology and the evolution of chaos math made it possible since. Now being a physics teacher " Richard" should have had ample contact with the info. And in regard with energetic names ; why not Dick? (please note the capital) That way people listening to JAR every day would say" And when Dick said that... Oh my!!!" talk about the energy!!!!
Myths being myths have a great power over us because as I said are our own reflections. It is only natural to see truth in them. By looking in to the occult people can get a glimpse of their pcyche that can be hidden for them for various reasons. The solution to the mystery though is not the revelation of the secrets but the reasons they are hidden. If you don't understand the reasons the secrets can be (by themselves) dangerous.That's why half baked " scientific" occultism so perilous. It prays mostly on people that would be better served by other means and when missapplied not only disempowers it downright paralyzes.
Nice to see that others recognize that Ra is a person - not simply an icon, and also to see that others understand that all teachings mutate as they are passed on. I had the privelege of studying with Chetan for several years and I know that he presented HD from his own perspective - one that was never in blind agreement with Ra. I owe an unpayble debt to Ra for sharing HD and I don't focus on whether every word he utters is gospel. I foucs on what I can derive from his words that is of value to me. The same with Chetan and Martin Grassinger and Zeno - all early followers of Ra.
If there is a single mistake to be avoided in HD it is to adopt it as a belief system. I really don't think Ra wants that. I know Chetan doesn't. HD requires. I think, continual exploration and experience by each person who encounters it.
I'm sure that the Man who is now Ra Uru Hu would appreciate the Joke of it all: This synthesis of ancient traditions combined into a system that's greater than the sum of it's parts.. as it is greater than the personality of it's first student and revealer!
We must realize that at least with Chetan Parkin, Richard Rudd and Eleanor Haspel-Portner, the man who is now Ra Uru Hu had perhaps the closest contact with these individuals than the many people who now have found an interest in Human Design. From reading their works, I see a well laid out evolution of not only how their insights added to the growth of the material but of the evolution of Ra himself and the evolution of what he teaches then and now.
Ra like we ourselves all are only human. Some see him as a profit (5/1 profile) and that's fine while some see him as a bit entertaining and that's fine as well.
I liken Ra to Bruce Lee. If anyone knows his story, Lee was a marital artist who in the evolution of his style of kung fu and philosophy, had studied everything under the Sun. His insights was a practical, efficient, and very effective synthesis of traditions rooted in the Wing Chun Gung Fu. Upon reflection on his journey, Jeet Kun Do (Lee's Marital Art Philosophy) is a reflection on his understanding and translation of the systhesis of the traditions he borrowed from.
Coming from a heritage where the role of myth is essential in the awakening of the mind, body and spirit, I understand the role of the Voice's revelation of what is now called Human Design. Somethings are true yet cannot be explained.
Now information being revealed does not mean that the Voice sat down and slapped Ra's head around when he forgot to dot an "i" or for falling asleep in class or something.
Ra had to do some work learning some things that are the pieces of the now called Human Design System. He had the understand things about Astrology, Chakras, Qabbala, i'Ching. He had to learn some things about Ancient Egyptian/KMT culture because of the name he chose to represent the knowledge and his change since I don't think that the name "Richard" would have cut it. Ra is the root of my first daughters' name so I know the role of names to the human psyche and our sense of ourselves. Ra as in radiance invokes a sense of illumination as related to the new understanding of ourselves, the Chiron cycles, the 2027 mutation that is 88° from Chiron's discovery date, and all. His being a 5/1 profile, we can see the role of his mythology in the promotion of human design. I would have never known it if he were not who he was and the marketing of it wasn't so "in-your-face".
Ra had some work to do.
Then in the process of sharing, the unavoidable mutation of the information shared into the students understanding. Ra hasn't escaped his conditioning of his life; it's still there. He is just at peace with the process. He like we all have our prejudices and human processes. We are all are part of a roadmap from that stream. Like a river with branching streams, We all conform the flow through our own experiences and give the river a whole new energy as the waters reconnect into our living whole. The waters is still the strategy. The variations of the streams has not changed the fact that the water is still the same.
We are all teachers and students. I've spent more money than most teachers of Human Design (including Richard Rudd and Unified Life Sciences insights) just for my own knowledgesake. My own insights and intuitive hunches and "Voices" will see futher evolutions. I'll past them down to my tribe and family.
And one day, if I ever meet Ra, he'll admit to me that the Voice said. "I told you this would happen, right?"
A renegade, by definition, is someone who deserts from one faith, cause, or allegiance to another. Being a deserter isn't quite the same thing as being the victim of a witch hunt.
If someone in HDS chooses to present the material in a way that isn't consistent with how most other members choose to present it then, I suppose they're setting up their own thing. Nothing wrong with that is there?
Besides a crazy hunch (i know i'm supposedto be the voice of reason ,but...) , there are indications.Zeno for one ,Elanor, even richard rudd in the UK. I do not know the particulars of each case but there seems to be a pattern towards distancing "renegade" elements from the "core" of HD.
Hello! There has been so much material there is a need to recap.Let me start with the experiment issue. While it is true that an experiment test a hypothesis , that doesn't preclude the fact that the hypothesis is free of scrutiny before experimentation. You might allow your kid to experiment with walking but you don't give him/her a stick of dynamite and wait to see what happens. An other example: you can't just start inject people with bleach to see if it prevents the flu because you were cleaning your bathroom and "why not?".Even in basic junior high experiments you are required to wear gloves and goggles.
The fact that it types don't really matter when it comes to empirical existence is not foreign to me.I think that is what i am saying all along.The problem is that HD is so much indentifies with the theory that any dispute of it is viewed as a threat to its existence. I hope that it will not result as a mini witchhunt within.It is always sad to see well meaning people being ostracised because they deviate from the general agenta. In other worlds if i see your name missing from the analyst list i would be totaly disgusted and i don't think i am alone in feeling like this.
Now when it comes to the special advices, all of them work as tools to slow down and be more aware of our surroundings but i don't think they are exclusive to one type.A person can use them interchangably and get the same result.
When it comes to kids everything that is done in a responsible and concientious way is more often than not possitive.Again in order to be that way one has to avoid the pitfalls of dogma. Underestanding one's self and rearranging one's self are two different things.
Finaly it is true that logic can not explain the unexplainable.There are always be mysteries and dreams and magic and all these things that inspire us , all these things that we aspire to. The ancient Greeks said that to see the true face of a god will drive a mortal crazy, simply because we can not comprehend such beauty. I think that is true for the human soul and no mystical diagrams exist that can capture it.
In re: kids tend to be themselves no matter what. Every animal on the planet operates from a simple biological principle. “Any animal, absent constraint, will do whatever it is able to do.” You can futz around with this all you want but it is the most basic and unalterable fact of biological life. Birds fly because they can. Lions don’t fly because they can’t. Children do whatever they can. Infants cry and scream and wiggle because they can. They come with some innate behaviors and some innate predisposition. Initially they simply “be” what they are without any “thinking” about it. As they grow they learn and develop more abilities. They exercise and implement what they learn. The world responds to their actions. The world severely constrains their behavior with an unending list of don’ts. Most of the behaviors that children display after about 12 months are learned behaviors. They mimic what they see. They do this simply because they have the ability to do so. They mimic their parents, their siblings, and their friends. They test what they learn and fine tune themselves based on their innate predisposition and the consequences of their actions. They are the victims and the beneficiaries of innate behaviors, organismic development, operant conditioning, and luck.
There’s something like 6.4 billion people in the world today. Many of them are kids, all who are not presently kids were at one time kids. Is HD necessary to raise kids? Is HD necessary to do a good job of raising kids? The answer is no. Unequivocally no. I raised my older son (an emotional manifestor) prior to learning anything about HD. He’s a happy, contented, warm and enjoyable young man, married with 2 kids of his own, who does what he wants. He was never difficult as a child. I accorded him the necessary space to be himself. I put limits on him as were necessary to ensure relative tranquility in the home. I taught him, by example, the rudiments of comfortable human interaction and I taught him by example that there is a huge range of diversity in behavior. Just pay attention to your world. That was my way, but there are countless successful strategies for raising kids who are able to have satisfying lives.
My younger son, Austin, is now 10 and I’ve had access to HD for about 5 years. Am I doing a better job raising him? How could I judge that? He’s a great kid. He’s a manifesting generator defined with the 43-23, the 1-8, and the 2-14 channels. The first thing I “learned” about manifestors was that they tend to feel angry because everyone gets in their way – tries to hold them back. They know they can do and don’t see why they shouldn’t just “do” what they can. Well, guess what, we all have to deal with that. The advice for manifestors was to ask permission or at least inform others of what you’re going to do. Duh! That pretty much applies to anyone who has to live with others in a cooperative fashion. Is it harder for some than for others? I don’t know, perhaps it is. Perhaps if you are here with a consistent drive to act it’s harder than it is for a projector who doesn’t have that drive. I do know that as a child I got in trouble often simply for doing what I wanted and it was a tough lesson for me to learn.
When Austin was about 3 and half years old we were taking a walk through the neighborhood with some friends who lived just across the street from us. One of their boys, Danny, was Austin’s age and they were close friends. They were walking ahead some yards ahead of us doing things in the 3 year old world, and I was talking with Danny’s mom, and behind us were my wife and Danny’s dad. I suddenly noticed the boys were not in sight. Panic! This is a very sedate, pleasant and safe little suburban neighborhood. We couldn’t figure out how the boys had disappeared from sight in the space of a minute. We all split up and went rushing around like the proverbial headless chicken. I thought to check our house. Yep, there they were. They had taken a quick right down a walking path and headed back toward home on a path that paralleled the street. I was angry. I made my anger obvious to Austin. I sent him scurrying to his room in a commanding tone of voice with a couple of smacks on his diaper padded butt. Yeah, Yeah, we could go into all of that, but it’s not relevant. The point is, Austin did what he wanted to do without seeking permission and without informing us. He did it because he could and because no constraint existed to inhibit him. Well, the route they took home included a fair distance on a 4 lane street on which cars routinely travel at 50 mph. The boys could just as easily, at that age, have decided to cross the street and been squished. I made a special effort to constrain his future behavior. Not because I objected to him being himself but because I recognized he lacked the learned capacity to consider the ramifications of speeding vehicles. No amount of explaining to him about that would serve as a sufficient constraint. I did explain it all to him but the purpose of the explanation was to lay the groundwork for his future learning method.
It was a couple of years later that HD discovered me. I understood quite clearly the concept of “manifestor”. When Austin was about 6 years old we gave him more leeway to walk alone to friends’ houses on the block. One day we went to get him and he wasn’t where he’d told us he would be. He’d gone to another friend’s house. Why? Because he could. That didn’t work for me. Why? because I want him to survive. So, I told him that in future if he was at a friend’s house and he wanted to go somewhere else that he had to first come home and let us know where he was going. As he got older, he got more freedom to range further, so coming home and telling us (which might happen several times in a couple of hours) could be seen as burdensome for him. So I bought walkie talkies. I made it easy for him and for us.
Over the years, as a manifesting generator, he has wanted many things, to play clarinet, trumpet, guitar, take kung fu, play football, etc. I don’t buy him everything he needs to do everything he wants because I know he just wants to “try” things. So, I rent the clarinet or trumpet or tell him to play my guitar. After a couple of weeks he decides he doesn’t really want to do what it takes to get good – then he’s done. OK. Every once in a while I point out to him this pattern he has – I don’t tell him not to be that way. I just want him to learn about himself by reflecting a little bit on how he consistently operates. I accommodate his needs as well as I can, but not blindly.
Austin wants really a lot – but the fact is that I can’t give him everything he wants so he has to learn about saving money and waiting and making decisions and prioritizing. I’ve never told him he has to wait to respond. When he gets older I’ll probably explain to him about paying attention to the sensations in his gut. I encourage and support his sacral voice – his grunts and groans, uh-huhs and un-uhs. I pay attention to the sounds he makes. I like his sounds.
Years ago my best friends had a couple of kids who were close in age to my oldest son. Sometimes I’d say something to them and they’d say “I know”. Finally I got irritated enough to say to them “Hey, if you act like you always know everything people will quit telling you anything” Turns out they have the 43/23. As does Austin. I made a mistake with those other kids. Didn’t cause them any real harm fortunately. HD describes that “I know” response from the 43/23 as meaning “I agree with you”. Cool, Thanks for that, Ra. I hear my son in ways that I wouldn’t have before, meaning I can support his innate behaviors more easily. I’ve been raising lids for over 30 years and I still am learning. And HD has proven useful to me in that arena. Not to mold my kids, but to better understand them and help them. I rarely tell Austin anything about his design, though he hears conversations about design in our house. I don’t use HD to make him get with some program, I use HD so I can more easily get with his program – in a responsible and conscientious way.
Synepho, ALL kids are exposed to the actions of their parents. ALL kids are molded by the adults around them. Kids at age 2 make choices (refusing to do what they're told, for example, throwing a fit when they don't get what they want, refusing to share with friends etc, ad nauseum). Parents lay trips on kids - always have and always will. Some parents lay lots of trips on their kids, some lay very heavy trips on their kids. I had crappy parents. Did it cause me harm? Sure. So then I had to take charge of myself. And it was tough. Gave me something intersting and worthwhile to do though.
I speculate that parents who are intense about using HD to mold and/or control their kids would be so even if they had no knowledge about HD. Unconditional love is well and good, but it's often not enough. Most parent think they're good parents.
I assume responsibility for understanding HD well enough to use it to support my kids, to help them learn about their world, and provide some reasonable framework within which they can relate to their experience. The framework may not be "true" but it gives them some kind of objectivity on themselves. I don't use HD to force them into anything.
This is going to be brief.
Glenda I posted a question and good manner require that i stay and reply to the answers.I do not like HD but I enjoy a good intelectual banter and even if we disagree, opinions are noteworthy and the people i talked to are very nice.How much energy does it take to read and write few paragraphs.
Kip very young kids have no choise on what they're exposed to.If they are patronized or forced to molds they conform even if they do not agree with the shape. They revolt later but that's a different chapter.
Loving them unconditionaly means that no matter what happens you love them.I think you have kids so you know what i am saying.No matter what arguments , differences ,diappoinments you will die for them if it needs be.
I know that's how my parents love me and that's how i love my kids.
Howdy Kip,
Thanks for your posts. As I read these last few, I found myself agreeing with so much and I had been wanting to ask much the same questions. I personally have done so much of the 'mental masturbation' over the years that I too, long for productive experimentation and experiences. I have lots yet to learn, only 1 year learning about HD, but already what I have picked up is of tremendous use to me. As I experiment with treating people in accordance with plain decent communication skills backed up with a glimpse into HD's mechanical aspects, I am finding that some of those earlier experiences with lots of rejection are changing. I reached a point a few years ago where I was so tired of everyone else talking to me and not asking me questions about my experiences and knowledge that all I could do was shut those people out (Ra talked about gate 13 line 4 Fatigue recently and it sure seems to fit my experience). Then eventually there was sort of the reverse where I was so keen to talk that I was doing just what I had disliked others doing. Now that I have a bit more balance, having had a chance to 'try out the other shoe', I can return to listening as long as I do get suitable chances to express myself.
Howdy Wee1elf,
What follows is my current perspective of how HD relates to genetics. It could be sheer crap or it could be close. Only time will tell.
The human genome project has mapped the chromosomes and can tell us what genes are common to all humans. Genetics has spent lots of effort in determining what triggers certain genes and have often wondered what controls the timing of the triggers. Ra emphazes that the bodygraph shows how we are different from one another and I believe that what he is getting at is ultimately related to which genes are turned on consistently within us and which are triggered by external events.
As to what those events are, my understanding is that every molecule in our body has a specific vibration (according to physics) and that there are sources of vibration that can be received by the molecule. This is molecular resonance and the result is that the molecule becomes energized. That energy ultimately has to either get passed on (re-transmitted) or allows the molecule to participate in a chemical reaction. The net result is a chain reaction of varying degree. Some die out quickly with no long term effect while others produce cell division or muscle movement or the secretion of a hormone or whatever.
The sources of vibration that stimulate the molecules range from heat and sound (mechanical) to light and electromagnetic radiation outside the visible spectrum. Everyone is acquainted with the senses of touch, hearing, smell, taste and sight. Each of these is doing just what I described above. Also well documented (and experienced by me) are the effects of magnetic resonance and microwave radiation on tissue. These effects range from tissue damage of various kinds to accelerated cell division both beneficial (healing) and detrimental (cancer). Various chemicals also cause genetic changes and can be ingested through foods and medicines or absorbed through the skin and nose/lungs. The net result is that we are continually undergoing genetic manipulation of one kind or another. Eventually, some of these reach the level of altering behavior patterns. That is what learning is all about. At its very core, all behavior is built on the genetic substrate.
(to be continued...)
Hi Wee1elf,
I am purely curious about Synepho, I get the impression from your reply that you read a lot more into my question than is there. :wink:
I mentioned Synepho not liking HD as that is actually mentioned in one of his/her posts, and I was fascinated as to what would motivate someone to do loads of posts when they dont like something, because for me personally if I dont like something I move on. I know we are all different and thought I might learn something if I asked the question.
I agree with you that nothing should be taken at face value, and I wish you well in your quest, I hope its as much fun as mine has been.
Glenda
There is, perhaps, no greater folly than to complain about what people do with ideas. The fact is that people organize culturally. Some people organize in a hierarchical fashion (or tribal in HD parlance) some in an egalitarian (HD collective) Some in an individual fashion as some as Isolates. This from Mary Douglas, a contemporary giant in cultural theory.
Aside from the theory one can observe for oneself that this is so. An idea comes along, individuals embrace it, and then immediately begin to change it Then hierarchists adopt it and structure it to suit their own needs, trying to maintain control and a traditional viewpoint. The egalitarians adopt it and structure it to suit their need to shape the future. Some Individuals wheel and deal with it and the Isolates are forever disenfranchised. Take a look at the history of any religion – it’s an obvious pattern. I’ve a long history with a number of “new” movements and systems over the past 30 years and it always plays out this way.
Now, if you want to belong to a group you basically have to go along with the group agenda, and in return you should receive the benefits of the group depending upon your stature in the group. No use complaining that this sucks, because that’s the way humans as a species choose to operate. They choose to operate this way because it create a robust society. If you aren’t happy with the benefits of belonging to a group then you either get better at their game or you withdraw. It’s not rocket science. If you happen to be extremely powerful you can hijack the group agenda and turn it to your own advantage.
I’m not comfortable in the hierarchy, but I don’t complain about their trip. It satisfies them. Sometimes they allow me to participate but I don’t get a lot of benefit because, really, I can’t do that trip very well. For me the cost to benefit ration doesn’t favor my putting forth the kind of energy required. I enjoy spending some time there and I can be respectful of it. I can spend more time in the egalitarian, but not a whole lot more. I usually come out a little bit ahead in the cost-benefit ratio, but it’s a little too rigid to suit me very well, and I won’t go along just because the majority decides something should be a certain way – unless I agree with the opinion. Often I don’t agree. sometimes because I don’t like the fact that the minority (up to 49%) is ignored and sometimes because I just think the decision is stupid. But again, I can spend some time there and I respect what they are doing. I tend to spend most of my time as an individual with some leaning toward being an isolate. When I find myself in the position of the isolate I usually don’t complain because I know I’m there simply because at that moment in that context it suits me best. I don’t like to spend time with most isolates because they’re usually pissing and moaning about everyone else’s trip. Over the long haul I’m most comfortable as an individual in the company of other individuals. It’s just easier for me.
It’s interesting to note that contemporary theories of culture propose that it’s the Isolates who ultimately are responsible for some of the greatest renewals in society.
Synepho, manifestor, generator, projector what difference does it make? people do what they do, believe what they believe, say what they say, and think what they think. Very little of it has anything to with objective fact. I’m surprised you don’t get that. Personally I dislike being told my brain is of little value. I like my brain a lot. I just ignore people when they say that. I don’t care whether or not it’s true.
What say we get a little more personal here as logic only takes us so far. Besides, logic is useless trying to demonstrate that what is unprovable is untrue. So, tell me, how much time do “we people” spend putting each other down? And why do you care enough to mention it? What difference does it make what ubiety costs if you don’t have to pay the cost for others seeking it. How would you have any inkling of what it might cost me – or whether or not I find the price reasonable? Does it bother you that I willingly pay the cost for whatever I perceive has value?
And what’s this “children have no choice,” Now you sound just like Ra. And this “they should be just loved unconditionaly and allowed to grow into their own adults.” What’s with this “ loved unconditionally”? What’s that mean? I s’pose it means whatever you want it to mean, doesn’t it? We can like or lump your meaning. So you’re playing the same game you’re whining about - not that I mind.
In re: “How do you justify entering an experiment before you validate it's premise?” Come on. The whole purpose of an experiment is to test a hypothesis. The hypothesis, once tested, may prove to be false. Cripes that’s junior high science. Kids learn to walk by experimenting – they don’t just wake up one day knowing how to do it. They move and observe the consequence of their movement and make adjustments and repeat it all until they know how to do it. I can play around in the arena of logical speculation until the cows come home, but if I want to accomplish something I’ve gotta actually do it and see what the result is. And when I get into the arena of complexity I’ve found that assumptions I make based on only a few iterations of a behavior may be insufficient to draw a useful (consistent and reliable) conclusion. But hey, that’s me. I enjoy some fluidity.
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Joined: 2005-01-12