Hi Rebecca and All,

In the recent Format class in Ibiza this April, Ra talked quite a bit about
the tantric channels. One interesting thing is that the Tribe has no format
energy or tantric energy. Evidently, the bonds in the Tribe are so strong
and all encompassing, that it takes the formats and the tantric channels to
divert any energy to the individual or the collective.

I was left with the impression that these were very strong, powerful
channels because they were the engine or life's blood of those three
circuits. And it took something that powerful to stand a chance in the
tribal world.

Cathy Kinnaird

-----Original Message-----
From: Rebecca [mailto:clearsky@zianet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 1:38 PM
To: Cathy Kinnaird
Subject: Re: [HumanDesignPro] Sexuality

(Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)

Hi, Gina, and all,

In answer to your 2nd question Ra speaks of tantra as being the physical
identity. The 3 tantric channels generate love and direction, and they
generate the identity into the world.

I've noticed that Ra uses words differently than many, and tantra is one of
those. In Osho's (Rasneesh) book on tantra
he defines it as saying yes to everything in life, nothing being excluded.
Thus the 29th gate is very tantric. And the 46, love of the body, fits in
here quite nicely. But our identity is much more than sexual.
I am bisexual. I have none of the tantric channels defined, nor the 59-6. I
do have the 41, fantasy, and the 36, sexual hunger. But I don't think you
can read someone's sexual preferences in a chart.

Rebecca

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Walking angel (that's a web name, right?)
I'm not sure exactly what you mean in your second paragraph.
You do raise a good point with the 18th gate. From my memory you are
right that it is the only gate that makes specific reference to gender.
Whenever you see someone with that gate you can say that they have
strong karma with their parent of the opposite sex. How that plays out
is infinite. For example it could be a woman with the 18th gate who
always dates older men. Or a man with the 18th gate who finds women more
threatening to him than men.

Without this gate we would never feel the need to correct the issues we
inherited from our parents. We would not have college students marching
in the streets. If I understand you right, then the gate is much more
than a fire alarm. It's the son who punches his wife beating father in
the face. But in the lines of the gate you see the variations. There are
some things that can never be fixed, other things that need to be fixed
slowly and so on. And it is always a collective process which involves
sharing. So you correct what your parents shared with you so that what
you share with your children can be better. It's a nice gate. Unless of
course your girlfriend has it and she doesn’t like what you are wearing.

Gennaro.

--------------------
www.HumanDesignOnline.com
Forum, Glossary, Interactive Community, Online Education

-----Original Message-----
From: walking angel [mailto:walking.angel@mac.com]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:09 PM
To: gennaro@humandesignonline.com
Subject: [HumanDesignPro] sexuality, healthy being and splenic gates

(Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)

Gennaro/

I've been interested in the gender blindness of HD at a bodygraph
level, which I feel is positive. Reading your recent post reminds me
that the only gate I'm aware of with a gender reference is Gate 18,
Correction: 'Work on what has been spoilt'. This is where the harmful
stuff that parents lay on their kids - the sins that are visited upon
future generations - are recognised, critiqued and laid out to be
worked on and made good before the damage spreads further (I guess that
Gate 50 has a part to play here too, handing down values and looking
after the healthy diversity of future society?). Especially (I quote
from Richard Rudd's 'Circuitry') in gate 18 'the greatest conditioning
will always come from the parent of the opposite sex'.

Is this in fact the only gender reference in all the gates?

And if this is our only clue, at a bodygraph level, about gender,
doesn't it fall a bit close to saying that (all) gender conditioning
equals damage? Is gate 18 *only* about putting damage to rights? Or
maybe, if the gender conditioning we receive is healthy (according to
the spleen, rather than according to moral codes: Heart Centre stuff
which is none of the spleen's business?), maybe the eighteenth gate
just sits there and doesn't kick up a fuss?? Is gate 18 just a fire
alarm?

What does the HD analysis of love say about this?

}walking.angel{

On 16 May 2005, at 19:26, Human Design Online wrote:
>
> I hope others add more but here is what I can contribute. Nature and
> Nurture. 
>  
> First Nurture - your conditioning is going to play a large part. If
> you are molested as a child or if you grew up with sexually liberal
> parents, as extreme examples. You can bring these variable down into
> the specifics of a person's chart but the variables can be so many
> that it is hard to track them.  For example a little girl is a split
> definition and it is the 16th gate that joins the split. She's looking

> for the skills to make her feel whole. Her brother has the 16th gate
> and he is a bully. Her sister has it too but she is a real sweetheart.

> The little girl becomes a teenager and goes to college. Her roommate
> is a lesbian with the 16th gate. Guess who becomes a lesbian too. So
> you can't look at a chart and see what they are, but you could see why

> they are.
>  
> Now Nature - this is a tough one. 57-10 Perfected form. This channel
> is about perfecting your form and could potentially involve changing
> of sexual form. Coincidentally, career wise it is a channel
> of stylists, interior designers or any other occupation where you
> perfect the form. I'd love to see statistics of charts vs.. career
> choices to see if this is true. It seems true in my life.

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Yes. I would say that about the 18th gate. :)
But then again I could show you the nasty and good side of every gate.
It's a dualistic system. Us humans are the ones who put morality to it
all. Having said that, there are tricky lines that require quite a bit
of maneuvering to get that point across.
Terminal Desease (18) - Some things can not be corrected whether you
like it or not.
Corruption (50) - Think of the anti-apartied people who corrupted the
current laws.
Perversion (58) - Too much of a good thing can be wonderful.
Bigotry (13) - just because we are all human does not mean we all need
to share the same bathroom.
And so on.

--------------------
www.HumanDesignOnline.com
Forum, Glossary, Interactive Community, Online Education

-----Original Message-----
From: walking angel [mailto:walking.angel@mac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:29 PM
To: gennaro@humandesignonline.com
Subject: [HumanDesignPro] nice gates - or not

(Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)

gennaro/

Writing about gate 18 you said: "It's a nice gate." That's good to
hear. Is there any gate where you would say: "Well, actually, that's a
pretty unpleasant gate" or a tough gate to have, or something like
that?

/michael
]walking.angel[

On 16 May 2005, at 20:26, Human Design Online wrote:

> ...it is always a collective process which involves sharing. So you
> correct what your parents shared with you so that what you share with
> your children can be better. It's a nice gate........
>
> Gennaro.

_________________________________________________________________
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esignonline.com

Dear Genoa,

I have been following most of these contributions to this site, and have
felt that it is already working really well in developing aspects of HD and
its understanding amongst the HD community. there have been all kinds of
excellent, interesting, amusing and other kinds of offerings that are
already broadening the grasp of HD, I feel sure.
However, here is something of a different order, from the Manifestor style
of operating in this world.
Your contribution here is just so outstanding in its clarity, its intention
and its quality. I am totally compelled to remark on this, and to thank you
from the inner core of my being, for setting out something that can be so
intricate in the detail, so complex in its explanation that we can get lost
in those turns, yet you have achieved a "straight path" that cuts through
all the distractions into a unified harmonious whole.

Thank you again for presenting me, and potentially many others in Human
design, with such an elegant and profound picture of what it is to be at
one with one's own Design, and to feel the joy of that surrender to
choicelessness.

Don.
At 10:32 19/05/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>(Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
>Dear Friends,
> Let's remember that everyones Design is perfect. Absolutely
>Perfect -- for them and their purpose for existing - once you are
>living it. Your Design is an instrument of evolution and spiritual
>power.
>
>Following Strategy is an attunement to the supra-intelligence of the
>"body-mind". The Magnetic Monopole is no fool, and draws your
>experiences through your aura like liquid lightning. These
>experiences are seeking your Authority within YOUR Design, NO ONE
>ELESE'S, and these experiences encounter the transformations of your
>channels, receive your transformation directly within the energy
>continuum -- your being the part of the whole that you are - it is
>not personal.
>
>What we think about, only adjusts the frequency of living like tuning
>an old fashioned radio. But, the moment that your Design truly SINGS,
>you know that your detriments and "difficult lines" are the most
>perfect parts of your incarnation - they give you traction and punch
>in the collective evolution, within the Mind of humanity, the big Mind.
>
>The most awful parts of the Design (for the not self) are the
>doorways which elevate awakening into the new paradigm, and gets us
>to confront the "hard crunchies" of the mutative process.
>
>The detriments and "difficult lines" are what they are because that
>is where humanity is, not where you need to be. Because we each were
>born from humanity, that is where we find our contact point with
>humanity, and the transformative power of living your Design works
>from there. A detriment, as an example, is an ugly place to start,
>but it is deep in the belly of Humanity, it has relevance, it has
>depth, it has traction.
>
>How else do genes change other than by living Design? This is the
>great insight and realization of Design. Mutation happens through
>implementing our detriments and difficult lines through the force of
>enlightenment -through enlightenment's tunnel - this is the
>endarkenment process within enlightenment.
>
>It is not our destiny to become dark, but rather to evolve The Form
>to embody the light.
>
>How each of these lines functions is connected directly to Your
>Strategy and the life You are living, and transforming. In this
>sense. there is no I'Ching for awakened souls, who transmit through
>their Design as an instrument of evolution.
>
>The not-self functions by THINKING that those lines are yours, that
>that struggle is yours, that Karma is yours, that those lines are
>characteristics of your Personality. They are not. They are only
>contact points, points where you hook into the Mind of Humanity -
>starting points to live, to apply the force of the eternal soul
>(Personality Crystal) to the endeavor of living.
>
>The maia moves. It is all about surrendering to the potency and
>genius of your Design - it is perfect, it is not personal, it is not
>yours, actually.
>
>Your Design is a tool of the evolving macrocosm, all we need to do -
>is use it, and using it means becoming one with it, without judgment
>of ourselves or others, and to allow our Design to do ITS work of
>bringing the Godhead into form. Each one of us is a part of that
>process... to move as The Design Moves, by accepting that "Design
>limitation Process", we get access to the whole. Transformative power
>is in what was the not-self, which becomes a medium of mutation.
>
>The Maia moves, we must move with it: to evolve it, be part of it, go
>where it goes, to survive it. We cannot do other than move with the
>dimension we are in, and your Design is moving - it is best to go
>with it. Following the strategy of your Design links you to what
>moves and evolves. It asks, it invites, it initiates, it elevates: 28
>line 4: taking the risk to hold on to the meaning of life and GO
>where your path leads.
>
>I write these letters, then wonder if I should send them. Most I do
>not. This one I will.
>
>Yours,
>Genoa
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives can all
>be found at:
>http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
>_________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and paste
>this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
>http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/humandesignpro/don%40mediacentre.org
>
>

Don Elwick
Managing Director

head office Brighton Media Centre Ltd, Friese-Greene House, 15-17 Middle
Street, Brighton. BN1 1AL
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Hi Gennaro,
I missed bits and pieces of Martin's Class 2 so went to the archive -
FYI it's only 31 minutes long. Maybe there's something wrong on my end -
I checked the stream twice, and also checked Class 1 which was a couple
of hours. Thanks.

Becky

Thank you, Genoa. Please, keep sending these letters...

Iñaki
----- Original Message -----
From: Genoa Bliven
To: Iñaki Moraza
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [HumanDesignPro] nice gates - or not

(Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)

Dear Friends,
Let's remember that everyones Design is perfect. Absolutely
Perfect -- for them and their purpose for existing - once you are
living it. Your Design is an instrument of evolution and spiritual
power.

Following Strategy is an attunement to the supra-intelligence of the
"body-mind". The Magnetic Monopole is no fool, and draws your
experiences through your aura like liquid lightning. These
experiences are seeking your Authority within YOUR Design, NO ONE
ELESE'S, and these experiences encounter the transformations of your
channels, receive your transformation directly within the energy
continuum -- your being the part of the whole that you are - it is
not personal.

What we think about, only adjusts the frequency of living like tuning
an old fashioned radio. But, the moment that your Design truly SINGS,
you know that your detriments and "difficult lines" are the most
perfect parts of your incarnation - they give you traction and punch
in the collective evolution, within the Mind of humanity, the big Mind.

The most awful parts of the Design (for the not self) are the
doorways which elevate awakening into the new paradigm, and gets us
to confront the "hard crunchies" of the mutative process.

The detriments and "difficult lines" are what they are because that
is where humanity is, not where you need to be. Because we each were
born from humanity, that is where we find our contact point with
humanity, and the transformative power of living your Design works
from there. A detriment, as an example, is an ugly place to start,
but it is deep in the belly of Humanity, it has relevance, it has
depth, it has traction.

How else do genes change other than by living Design? This is the
great insight and realization of Design. Mutation happens through
implementing our detriments and difficult lines through the force of
enlightenment -through enlightenment's tunnel - this is the
endarkenment process within enlightenment.

It is not our destiny to become dark, but rather to evolve The Form
to embody the light.

How each of these lines functions is connected directly to Your
Strategy and the life You are living, and transforming. In this
sense. there is no I'Ching for awakened souls, who transmit through
their Design as an instrument of evolution.

The not-self functions by THINKING that those lines are yours, that
that struggle is yours, that Karma is yours, that those lines are
characteristics of your Personality. They are not. They are only
contact points, points where you hook into the Mind of Humanity -
starting points to live, to apply the force of the eternal soul
(Personality Crystal) to the endeavor of living.

The maia moves. It is all about surrendering to the potency and
genius of your Design - it is perfect, it is not personal, it is not
yours, actually.

Your Design is a tool of the evolving macrocosm, all we need to do -
is use it, and using it means becoming one with it, without judgment
of ourselves or others, and to allow our Design to do ITS work of
bringing the Godhead into form. Each one of us is a part of that
process... to move as The Design Moves, by accepting that "Design
limitation Process", we get access to the whole. Transformative power
is in what was the not-self, which becomes a medium of mutation.

The Maia moves, we must move with it: to evolve it, be part of it, go
where it goes, to survive it. We cannot do other than move with the
dimension we are in, and your Design is moving - it is best to go
with it. Following the strategy of your Design links you to what
moves and evolves. It asks, it invites, it initiates, it elevates: 28
line 4: taking the risk to hold on to the meaning of life and GO
where your path leads.

I write these letters, then wonder if I should send them. Most I do
not. This one I will.

Yours,
Genoa

_________________________________________________________________
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Genoa - sweet, strong blessings to you for writing this and much more that you do for us ALL.. Please continue. This is one of the most welcome experiences since my 2 years of beginning to learn how to use Reflector strategy. How have other reflectors out there experienced and learned to live by our strategy?

Gratefully, Kaye

Rebecca wrote:
(Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)

Very elegantly put, Genoa. Please continue to post your letters.
Each chart tha I look at is quite beautiful in how all of the elements of
the design work together and compliment each other. Each one is an unique
jewel.
Rebecca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genoa Bliven"
To: "Rebecca Riley"
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [HumanDesignPro] nice gates - or not

> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
> Dear Friends,
> Let's remember that everyones Design is perfect. Absolutely
> Perfect -- for them and their purpose for existing - once you are
> living it. Your Design is an instrument of evolution and spiritual
> power.
>
> Following Strategy is an attunement to the supra-intelligence of the
> "body-mind". The Magnetic Monopole is no fool, and draws your
> experiences through your aura like liquid lightning. These
> experiences are seeking your Authority within YOUR Design, NO ONE
> ELESE'S, and these experiences encounter the transformations of your
> channels, receive your transformation directly within the energy
> continuum -- your being the part of the whole that you are - it is
> not personal.
>
> What we think about, only adjusts the frequency of living like tuning
> an old fashioned radio. But, the moment that your Design truly SINGS,
> you know that your detriments and "difficult lines" are the most
> perfect parts of your incarnation - they give you traction and punch
> in the collective evolution, within the Mind of humanity, the big Mind.
>
> The most awful parts of the Design (for the not self) are the
> doorways which elevate awakening into the new paradigm, and gets us
> to confront the "hard crunchies" of the mutative process.
>
> The detriments and "difficult lines" are what they are because that
> is where humanity is, not where you need to be. Because we each were
> born from humanity, that is where we find our contact point with
> humanity, and the transformative power of living your Design works
> from there. A detriment, as an example, is an ugly place to start,
> but it is deep in the belly of Humanity, it has relevance, it has
> depth, it has traction.
>
> How else do genes change other than by living Design? This is the
> great insight and realization of Design. Mutation happens through
> implementing our detriments and difficult lines through the force of
> enlightenment -through enlightenment's tunnel - this is the
> endarkenment process within enlightenment.
>
> It is not our destiny to become dark, but rather to evolve The Form
> to embody the light.
>
> How each of these lines functions is connected directly to Your
> Strategy and the life You are living, and transforming. In this
> sense. there is no I'Ching for awakened souls, who transmit through
> their Design as an instrument of evolution.
>
> The not-self functions by THINKING that those lines are yours, that
> that struggle is yours, that Karma is yours, that those lines are
> characteristics of your Personality. They are not. They are only
> contact points, points where you hook into the Mind of Humanity -
> starting points to live, to apply the force of the eternal soul
> (Personality Crystal) to the endeavor of living.
>
> The maia moves. It is all about surrendering to the potency and
> genius of your Design - it is perfect, it is not personal, it is not
> yours, actually.
>
> Your Design is a tool of the evolving macrocosm, all we need to do -
> is use it, and using it means becoming one with it, without judgment
> of ourselves or others, and to allow our Design to do ITS work of
> bringing the Godhead into form. Each one of us is a part of that
> process... to move as The Design Moves, by accepting that "Design
> limitation Process", we get access to the whole. Transformative power
> is in what was the not-self, which becomes a medium of mutation.
>
> The Maia moves, we must move with it: to evolve it, be part of it, go
> where it goes, to survive it. We cannot do other than move with the
> dimension we are in, and your Design is moving - it is best to go
> with it. Following the strategy of your Design links you to what
> moves and evolves. It asks, it invites, it initiates, it elevates: 28
> line 4: taking the risk to hold on to the meaning of life and GO
> where your path leads.
>
> I write these letters, then wonder if I should send them. Most I do
> not. This one I will.
>
> Yours,
> Genoa
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives can all
be found at:
> http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and paste
this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
>
http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/humandesignpro/clearsky%40zianet.com
>
>
>
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 5/17/2005
>
>

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Thanks Gennaro. That's a fine, helpful, generous response to my hazy
2nd paragraph. It helps me to put a positive feeling to my own 18th
gate, which got a lot of (heretical but not-Self) exercise as
subversion, destruction and critique in earlier years.

yes }walking.angel{ is a web name. This is Michael here :-)

On the wings of design
/michael

On 16 May 2005, at 20:26, Human Design Online wrote:

> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
> Walking angel (that's a web name, right?)
> I'm not sure exactly what you mean in your second paragraph.
> You do raise a good point with the 18th gate. From my memory you are
> right that it is the only gate that makes specific reference to gender.
> Whenever you see someone with that gate you can say that they have
> strong karma with their parent of the opposite sex. How that plays out
> is infinite. For example it could be a woman with the 18th gate who
> always dates older men. Or a man with the 18th gate who finds women
> more
> threatening to him than men.
>
> Without this gate we would never feel the need to correct the issues we
> inherited from our parents. We would not have college students marching
> in the streets. If I understand you right, then the gate is much more
> than a fire alarm. It's the son who punches his wife beating father in
> the face. But in the lines of the gate you see the variations. There
> are
> some things that can never be fixed, other things that need to be fixed
> slowly and so on. And it is always a collective process which involves
> sharing. So you correct what your parents shared with you so that what
> you share with your children can be better. It's a nice gate. Unless of
> course your girlfriend has it and she doesn’t like what you are
> wearing.
>
> Gennaro.
>
> --------------------
> www.HumanDesignOnline.com
> Forum, Glossary, Interactive Community, Online Education
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: walking angel [mailto:walking.angel@mac.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:09 PM
> To: gennaro@humandesignonline.com
> Subject: [HumanDesignPro] sexuality, healthy being and splenic gates
>
>
> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
> Gennaro/
>
> I've been interested in the gender blindness of HD at a bodygraph
> level, which I feel is positive. Reading your recent post reminds me
> that the only gate I'm aware of with a gender reference is Gate 18,
> Correction: 'Work on what has been spoilt'. This is where the harmful
> stuff that parents lay on their kids - the sins that are visited upon
> future generations - are recognised, critiqued and laid out to be
> worked on and made good before the damage spreads further (I guess that
> Gate 50 has a part to play here too, handing down values and looking
> after the healthy diversity of future society?). Especially (I quote
> from Richard Rudd's 'Circuitry') in gate 18 'the greatest conditioning
> will always come from the parent of the opposite sex'.
>
> Is this in fact the only gender reference in all the gates?
>
> And if this is our only clue, at a bodygraph level, about gender,
> doesn't it fall a bit close to saying that (all) gender conditioning
> equals damage? Is gate 18 *only* about putting damage to rights? Or
> maybe, if the gender conditioning we receive is healthy (according to
> the spleen, rather than according to moral codes: Heart Centre stuff
> which is none of the spleen's business?), maybe the eighteenth gate
> just sits there and doesn't kick up a fuss?? Is gate 18 just a fire
> alarm?
>
> What does the HD analysis of love say about this?
>
> }walking.angel{
>
>
> On 16 May 2005, at 19:26, Human Design Online wrote:
>>
>> I hope others add more but here is what I can contribute. Nature and
>> Nurture. 
>>  
>> First Nurture - your conditioning is going to play a large part. If
>> you are molested as a child or if you grew up with sexually liberal
>> parents, as extreme examples. You can bring these variable down into
>> the specifics of a person's chart but the variables can be so many
>> that it is hard to track them.  For example a little girl is a split
>> definition and it is the 16th gate that joins the split. She's looking
>
>> for the skills to make her feel whole. Her brother has the 16th gate
>> and he is a bully. Her sister has it too but she is a real sweetheart.
>
>> The little girl becomes a teenager and goes to college. Her roommate
>> is a lesbian with the 16th gate. Guess who becomes a lesbian too. So
>> you can't look at a chart and see what they are, but you could see why
>
>> they are.
>>  
>> Now Nature - this is a tough one. 57-10 Perfected form. This channel
>> is about perfecting your form and could potentially involve changing
>> of sexual form. Coincidentally, career wise it is a channel
>> of stylists, interior designers or any other occupation where you
>> perfect the form. I'd love to see statistics of charts vs.. career
>> choices to see if this is true. It seems true in my life.

Ah, hi Michael!
In terms of the fears you might already know that the 18th gate is the
fear of authority. You know that bumper sticker that says "Question
Authority". I bet that was started by somebody with the 18th gate.

--------------------
www.HumanDesignOnline.com
Forum, Glossary, Interactive Community, Online Education

-----Original Message-----
From: walking angel [mailto:walking.angel@mac.com]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:49 PM
To: gennaro@humandesignonline.com
Subject: [HumanDesignPro] gate 18, parents & correction

(Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)

Thanks Gennaro. That's a fine, helpful, generous response to my hazy
2nd paragraph. It helps me to put a positive feeling to my own 18th
gate, which got a lot of (heretical but not-Self) exercise as
subversion, destruction and critique in earlier years.

yes }walking.angel{ is a web name. This is Michael here :-)

On the wings of design
/michael

On 16 May 2005, at 20:26, Human Design Online wrote:

> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
> Walking angel (that's a web name, right?)
> I'm not sure exactly what you mean in your second paragraph. You do
> raise a good point with the 18th gate. From my memory you are right
> that it is the only gate that makes specific reference to gender.
> Whenever you see someone with that gate you can say that they have
> strong karma with their parent of the opposite sex. How that plays out

> is infinite. For example it could be a woman with the 18th gate who
> always dates older men. Or a man with the 18th gate who finds women
> more threatening to him than men.
>
> Without this gate we would never feel the need to correct the issues
> we inherited from our parents. We would not have college students
> marching in the streets. If I understand you right, then the gate is
> much more than a fire alarm. It's the son who punches his wife beating

> father in the face. But in the lines of the gate you see the
> variations. There are some things that can never be fixed, other
> things that need to be fixed slowly and so on. And it is always a
> collective process which involves sharing. So you correct what your
> parents shared with you so that what you share with your children can
> be better. It's a nice gate. Unless of course your girlfriend has it
> and she doesn’t like what you are wearing.
>
> Gennaro.
>
> --------------------
> www.HumanDesignOnline.com
> Forum, Glossary, Interactive Community, Online Education
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: walking angel [mailto:walking.angel@mac.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:09 PM
> To: gennaro@humandesignonline.com
> Subject: [HumanDesignPro] sexuality, healthy being and splenic gates
>
>
> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
> Gennaro/
>
> I've been interested in the gender blindness of HD at a bodygraph
> level, which I feel is positive. Reading your recent post reminds me
> that the only gate I'm aware of with a gender reference is Gate 18,
> Correction: 'Work on what has been spoilt'. This is where the harmful
> stuff that parents lay on their kids - the sins that are visited upon
> future generations - are recognised, critiqued and laid out to be
> worked on and made good before the damage spreads further (I guess
> that Gate 50 has a part to play here too, handing down values and
> looking after the healthy diversity of future society?). Especially (I

> quote from Richard Rudd's 'Circuitry') in gate 18 'the greatest
> conditioning will always come from the parent of the opposite sex'.
>
> Is this in fact the only gender reference in all the gates?
>
> And if this is our only clue, at a bodygraph level, about gender,
> doesn't it fall a bit close to saying that (all) gender conditioning
> equals damage? Is gate 18 *only* about putting damage to rights? Or
> maybe, if the gender conditioning we receive is healthy (according to
> the spleen, rather than according to moral codes: Heart Centre stuff
> which is none of the spleen's business?), maybe the eighteenth gate
> just sits there and doesn't kick up a fuss?? Is gate 18 just a fire
> alarm?
>
> What does the HD analysis of love say about this?
>
> }walking.angel{
>
>
> On 16 May 2005, at 19:26, Human Design Online wrote:
>>
>> I hope others add more but here is what I can contribute. Nature and
>> Nurture.
>>  
>> First Nurture - your conditioning is going to play a large part. If
>> you are molested as a child or if you grew up with sexually liberal
>> parents, as extreme examples. You can bring these variable down into
>> the specifics of a person's chart but the variables can be so many
>> that it is hard to track them.  For example a little girl is a split
>> definition and it is the 16th gate that joins the split. She's
>> looking
>
>> for the skills to make her feel whole. Her brother has the 16th gate
>> and he is a bully. Her sister has it too but she is a real
>> sweetheart.
>
>> The little girl becomes a teenager and goes to college. Her roommate
>> is a lesbian with the 16th gate. Guess who becomes a lesbian too. So
>> you can't look at a chart and see what they are, but you could see
>> why
>
>> they are.
>>  
>> Now Nature - this is a tough one. 57-10 Perfected form. This channel
>> is about perfecting your form and could potentially involve changing
>> of sexual form. Coincidentally, career wise it is a channel of 
>> stylists, interior designers or any other occupation where you
>> perfect the form. I'd love to see statistics of charts vs.. career
>> choices to see if this is true. It seems true in my life.

_________________________________________________________________
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esignonline.com

Hi Lorenna,

I read your posting and I had to chuckle... Obviously, there's more here than coincidence.

I'm basically gay and I have:

- Neptune (conjunction Venus) on my ascendent
- channel 59/6 (conscious)
- channel 46/29 (unconscious)

Enjoying the flow, Iñaki
----- Original Message -----
From: Lorenna Shalev
To: Iñaki Moraza
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [HumanDesignPro] Sexuality

(Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)

In Astrology there is a correlation between Neptune on the ascendent
and some unusualness in orientation.. Please do tell me about other
indicators... Of course, this doesn't localize on any particular gate,
and of course many unusually-oriented people do not have this
configuration.
I personally have the 59/6 channel and so this topic is of profound
interest to me. Some of my friends, who are queer, also have this
channel! I'll be fascinated to hear what others have to say on this
matter. I have met queer people with 46/29 also. I don't recall seeing
the other 2 "tantric" channels in the charts of gay, bi or lesbian
people that I've looked at, but my sample size is quite small. Sharing
our findings is very useful.
Blessings and Peace, Lorenna

On May 16, 2005, at 10:17 AM, Human Design Online wrote:

> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
> Cartography - what day of the week? Not Monday if I'm doing ABC on
> that day.
>
>
>
> --------------------
> www.HumanDesignOnline.com
> Forum, Glossary, Interactive Community, Online Education
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gina Concotelli [mailto:ginaconco@san.rr.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:58 PM
> To: gennaro@humandesignonline.com
> Subject: [HumanDesignPro] Sexuality
>
> Hello Everyone:
> I have a couple of questions for your feedback
>
> #1 I have studied Astrology for many years and I know of a couple of
> indicators in the planet placement that suggest about a person sexual
> orientation. I'm curious what indicators there are in the HD system
> that reveal if someone is gay, bi, heterosexual or other?
>
> #2 I have heard that the 3 channels coming out the sacral are
> "tantric channels". I know what tantra is .... but what does it mean
> if someone has a tantric channel or if they do not?
> I'm speaking of the 29-46, 14-2 and 5-15.
>
> Gina_________________________________________________________________
> The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives can
> all be found at:
> http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and
> paste this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
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> lorenna%40mac.com
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Dear Jacques,

Very good question, and one which I have put a lot of thinking into.

When the Voice indicated that only the 13 points used in Human Design
activate gates, this means that they activate gates relative to
defining TYPE, STRATEGY and AUTHORITY.

The other bodies, such as Chiron influence through their positions,
but they do not determine Strategy, Definition or Authority. So, yes,
because Chiron is on gate 41, you do deal with powerful hunger and
fantasies, but ultimately you will need to deal with these realities
(or lack thereof) through your Authority, and therefore through the
other activations in your Design, which determine your Strategy.

In this sense one can almost say that other activations are part of
the not-self conditioning. I do not think that you can go this far.
But, in order that these positions and bodies do not become part of
not-self conditioning, one needs to deal with them through Strategy.

I found it humorous that on the web-cast where Ra shared about his
experience, he pointed out that an asteriod was on gate 17 during the
experience, giving him the Channel of Acceptance, the Design of an
Organized Being. Well, yes it did, didn't it? Does that mean that
other bodies condition other than the original 13? Yes, it does. Does
this mean that other bodies in ones own birth configuration are
conditioning? No, it does not.

As an example, the Ascendent represents your truth, your actual
manifestation according to the will of divine powers, if you will.
Knowing your ascendant in the Human Design is very illiminating.
However, none of those things mean anything until you are living your
Design.

As a further point of interest, there is a point called the Aruda-
Lagna in Vedic Astrology, which is the Acendant of the Not-self.
Aruda means "the destroyer". It indicates the point of anit-truth
within you.

Interesting stuff, and very fascinating to know, but the Voice was
clear, and Ra has been clear, that the first step is to focus on the
points, which determine Strategy, which ultimately connect you with
your Authority. From there, there are all kinds of interesting places
to go, including the position of Chiron, which in my case is on gate
43 line 3 (unconscious) and 43 line 1 conscious. This represents a
very interesting dilemma because it represents a conscious
participating in an unconscious channel, which does not determine my
Authority. Well, I can see that.

Yours,
Genoa

On May 21, 2005, at 9:14 AM, PflaumChapoutot wrote:

> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
>
>
> Hi everybody
> Since we're considering sexuality, i have this question:
> What Ra mentions about Gate 41 in his 'Sex Manual', I can feel I have:
> strong sexual hunger, a lot of fantasies
> BUT: in my Design, Gate 41 is activated by Chiron! So no colour
> comes out of
> my undefined root center. And that puzzles me a lot to feel like
> this gate
> would be activated when it is actually not. What meaning to give to
> the
> activation of Chiron? Is that activation permanent or only 'valid' at
> chiron's return? Because I have this pressure since I'm young.
> Why, if Chiron is an activating force, the Gates he defines are not
> shown?
> Thank you to whoever will take the time to reply.
> Best to everyone in this forum
> jacques
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives
> can all be found at:
> http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and
> paste this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
> http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/humandesignpro/gbliven%
> 40qwest.net
>
>

Jacques,

about the Nodes, the determining factor for inclusion is not that they
are a "point" (after all, there are so many points to consider in
astrology these days; angle of declination, midpoints, all the Greek
Parts and the like are only a few categories of current interest in
Western astrology) but that they are an attracting gravitational focus
that channels the pure influence of the starfield into your design at
that degree of the zodiac and therefore degree of the radial I Ching
without the mediation of any planetary influence at all. Unless, that
is, you have planets conjunct either of the nodes in your particular
chart. Black Lilith, having its own influencing quality apart from
marking a conditioning zodiac degree, would of course have a different
effect. And of course most simply it's because it wasn't one of the
points stipulated by "The Voice." Perhaps Genoa will have more to say
about this.

The magic is in the Strategy--the richness I feel you feel in asking
these questions is so well rewarded by using it and experiencing where
it takes you.as you continue to experiment with it .

Hope this helps,

Deborah Bergman

On May 21, 2005, at 9:50, PflaumChapoutot wrote:

> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
> Dear dear Genoa!
>
> What a precious gift it is, to have 'in-HD-elder-Brothers/Sisters'
> like you!
> your insights give me so much of a new and vast space to ponder over,
> in
> this already enormous knowledge of the HD! I deeply regret to be a mere
> novice in it; so I'm grasping only a few bits of your thoughts: it
> will take
> me quite some time to really get the juice of your words...
>
> Now, your main message - 13 points defining Type, Strategy and
> Authority -
> has gone through, though. Being a Projector, I have to be recognized
> and
> invited to live the fantasies of my hunger. Chiron doesn't help
> defining the
> Strategy.
>
> If I may ask you a couple of other questions - you raised too many
> interesting points!:
> 1) The HD integrates the Nodes, which are no bodies, no asteroids; why
> then
> Lilith, the Black Moon is left apart? Since it is like the Nodes, a
> calculation point, it would seem logical to have it also in the
> Design. But
> it is not there and there must be a good reason for that!...
> 2) you mention the Ascendant. How do we see the ascendant in HD?
> 3) Funny enough, few years ago I got very much into Jyotish, but left
> out
> the Aruda Lagna! Shame on me! How do we determine the Not-Self
> Ascendant?
> For whoever sincerely wants to know himself/herself, these two
> ascendants
> are essential, aren't they?
>
> In any case, I will honour your advice: follow my strategy!
> Many thanks to you, Genoa
> Jacques
>
>
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Genoa Bliven [mailto:genoabliven@mac.com]
> Envoyé : samedi 21 mai 2005 16:03
> À : Jacques chapoutot
> Objet : Re: RE : [HumanDesignPro] Sexuality
>
> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
> Dear Jacques,
>
> Very good question, and one which I have put a lot of thinking into.
>
> When the Voice indicated that only the 13 points used in Human Design
> activate gates, this means that they activate gates relative to
> defining TYPE, STRATEGY and AUTHORITY.
>
> The other bodies, such as Chiron influence through their positions,
> but they do not determine Strategy, Definition or Authority. So, yes,
> because Chiron is on gate 41, you do deal with powerful hunger and
> fantasies, but ultimately you will need to deal with these realities
> (or lack thereof) through your Authority, and therefore through the
> other activations in your Design, which determine your Strategy.
>
> In this sense one can almost say that other activations are part of
> the not-self conditioning. I do not think that you can go this far.
> But, in order that these positions and bodies do not become part of
> not-self conditioning, one needs to deal with them through Strategy.
>
> I found it humorous that on the web-cast where Ra shared about his
> experience, he pointed out that an asteriod was on gate 17 during the
> experience, giving him the Channel of Acceptance, the Design of an
> Organized Being. Well, yes it did, didn't it? Does that mean that
> other bodies condition other than the original 13? Yes, it does. Does
> this mean that other bodies in ones own birth configuration are
> conditioning? No, it does not.
>
> As an example, the Ascendent represents your truth, your actual
> manifestation according to the will of divine powers, if you will.
> Knowing your ascendant in the Human Design is very illiminating.
> However, none of those things mean anything until you are living your
> Design.
>
> As a further point of interest, there is a point called the Aruda-
> Lagna in Vedic Astrology, which is the Acendant of the Not-self.
> Aruda means "the destroyer". It indicates the point of anit-truth
> within you.
>
> Interesting stuff, and very fascinating to know, but the Voice was
> clear, and Ra has been clear, that the first step is to focus on the
> points, which determine Strategy, which ultimately connect you with
> your Authority. From there, there are all kinds of interesting places
> to go, including the position of Chiron, which in my case is on gate
> 43 line 3 (unconscious) and 43 line 1 conscious. This represents a
> very interesting dilemma because it represents a conscious
> participating in an unconscious channel, which does not determine my
> Authority. Well, I can see that.
>
> Yours,
> Genoa
>
>
>
> On May 21, 2005, at 9:14 AM, PflaumChapoutot wrote:
>
>> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everybody
>> Since we're considering sexuality, i have this question:
>> What Ra mentions about Gate 41 in his 'Sex Manual', I can feel I have:
>> strong sexual hunger, a lot of fantasies
>> BUT: in my Design, Gate 41 is activated by Chiron! So no colour
>> comes out of
>> my undefined root center. And that puzzles me a lot to feel like
>> this gate
>> would be activated when it is actually not. What meaning to give to
>> the
>> activation of Chiron? Is that activation permanent or only 'valid' at
>> chiron's return? Because I have this pressure since I'm young.
>> Why, if Chiron is an activating force, the Gates he defines are not
>> shown?
>> Thank you to whoever will take the time to reply.
>> Best to everyone in this forum
>> jacques
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives
>> can all be found at:
>> http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and
>> paste this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
>> http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/humandesignpro/gbliven%
>> 40qwest.net
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives can
> all
> be found at:
> http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and
> paste
> this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
> http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/humandesignpro/
> pflaumchapoutot%40no
> os.fr
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives can
> all be found at:
> http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and
> paste this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
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> rubythroated%40comcast.net
>

Genoa, I have 41-6th line ,conscious, activated by the north node. The north
node isn't really a "body" right? but it does activate the design. How is
that? And I don't have a lot of fantasies, but I notice anyone with the 30
has fantasies about me!
Rebecca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genoa Bliven"
To: "Rebecca Riley"
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RE : [HumanDesignPro] Sexuality

> (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
>
>
> Dear Jacques,
>
> Very good question, and one which I have put a lot of thinking into.
>
> When the Voice indicated that only the 13 points used in Human Design
> activate gates, this means that they activate gates relative to
> defining TYPE, STRATEGY and AUTHORITY.
>
> The other bodies, such as Chiron influence through their positions,
> but they do not determine Strategy, Definition or Authority. So, yes,
> because Chiron is on gate 41, you do deal with powerful hunger and
> fantasies, but ultimately you will need to deal with these realities
> (or lack thereof) through your Authority, and therefore through the
> other activations in your Design, which determine your Strategy.
>
> In this sense one can almost say that other activations are part of
> the not-self conditioning. I do not think that you can go this far.
> But, in order that these positions and bodies do not become part of
> not-self conditioning, one needs to deal with them through Strategy.
>
> I found it humorous that on the web-cast where Ra shared about his
> experience, he pointed out that an asteriod was on gate 17 during the
> experience, giving him the Channel of Acceptance, the Design of an
> Organized Being. Well, yes it did, didn't it? Does that mean that
> other bodies condition other than the original 13? Yes, it does. Does
> this mean that other bodies in ones own birth configuration are
> conditioning? No, it does not.
>
> As an example, the Ascendent represents your truth, your actual
> manifestation according to the will of divine powers, if you will.
> Knowing your ascendant in the Human Design is very illiminating.
> However, none of those things mean anything until you are living your
> Design.
>
> As a further point of interest, there is a point called the Aruda-
> Lagna in Vedic Astrology, which is the Acendant of the Not-self.
> Aruda means "the destroyer". It indicates the point of anit-truth
> within you.
>
> Interesting stuff, and very fascinating to know, but the Voice was
> clear, and Ra has been clear, that the first step is to focus on the
> points, which determine Strategy, which ultimately connect you with
> your Authority. From there, there are all kinds of interesting places
> to go, including the position of Chiron, which in my case is on gate
> 43 line 3 (unconscious) and 43 line 1 conscious. This represents a
> very interesting dilemma because it represents a conscious
> participating in an unconscious channel, which does not determine my
> Authority. Well, I can see that.
>
> Yours,
> Genoa
>
>
>
> On May 21, 2005, at 9:14 AM, PflaumChapoutot wrote:
>
> > (Replying to this email will send your message to everyone)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi everybody
> > Since we're considering sexuality, i have this question:
> > What Ra mentions about Gate 41 in his 'Sex Manual', I can feel I have:
> > strong sexual hunger, a lot of fantasies
> > BUT: in my Design, Gate 41 is activated by Chiron! So no colour
> > comes out of
> > my undefined root center. And that puzzles me a lot to feel like
> > this gate
> > would be activated when it is actually not. What meaning to give to
> > the
> > activation of Chiron? Is that activation permanent or only 'valid' at
> > chiron's return? Because I have this pressure since I'm young.
> > Why, if Chiron is an activating force, the Gates he defines are not
> > shown?
> > Thank you to whoever will take the time to reply.
> > Best to everyone in this forum
> > jacques
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives
> > can all be found at:
> > http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and
> > paste this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
> > http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/humandesignpro/gbliven%
> > 40qwest.net
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The Live class link, Email Group Archives, and Live Class Archives can all
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> http://www.humandesignonline.com/p/live-pro-forum/index.htm
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please cut and paste
this ENTIRE link into a web browser:
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http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/humandesignpro/clearsky%40zianet.com
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>
>
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