Hi Lasita,

I can't work out how to upload my chart! Advice and guidance welcome.

Interesting to read your post and to see the similarities and the
differences. For instance you say:

In the past, I have been horribly defensive and have tended to have a
very low sense of self-worth and constantly tried to "prove myself",
promising I wouldn't repeat mistakes, only to do it the next day, if
not the next moment.

Boy, how that resonates. And:

I feel so vulnerable to being affected by others, both emotionally
(undefined Solar Plexus), but also in terms of self-direction
(undefined G-center) and I have tended to be obsessed about whether
I am loved and appreciated.

Yes, I have felt very vulnerable for a lot of my life (and if I'm
honest, I still do, although not to such an extent as previously). I
so agree about feeling overwhelmed around people who have defined
egos and G centres. I'm learning not to be, but only if I go into a
situation fully prepared for the barrage that sometimes comes from an
interaction, so that I'm not caught off-guard and flounder, often
unable to respond appropriately. It's so easy to see what I should
have said half and hour later (or half a day or half a week) and by
then, it's often too late.

How do I rise above the minor egoic concerns and FIND my self-esteem,
and strength of will, regardless of how others are behaving?

Good question!! If anyone else has a take on this, I'd be glad to
hear it.

I've been competitive in personal interactions, without any hope of
succeeding in competition, so I've kept reinforcing my feeling of
being a failure.

Now here we differ. Often, but no always, if it comes to competing,
I won't even try as I'm afraid of failing. Funnily enough, that
doesn't stop me taking on difficult challenges when I'm not competing
with someone else.

Best wishes

Khair-un-Nisa

On 19 May 2006, at 13:41, Lorenna Shalev wrote:

--- HDCommunity Group ---
SORRY i sent it from a different e-mail address. This is a duplicate:
Hi,
Perhaps the way to go is to give personal examples, so that
instead of arguing about what the "dogma" is on the subject, we
examine our own lives.

My chart is in the library as Lasita Shalev, after the end of the
alphabetical sequence.
This is the link: http://www.humandesignonline.com/chart/personal/
Lasita_Shalev.jpeg

I have only spleen and throat defined, with dormant potentials on
all the other centers EXCEPT the EGO.
Sometimes dormant potentials (activated gates on undefined
centers) have been called "themes" because we may behave in
characteristic ways when our undefined centers become defined by
planetary transits or people.

The totally open Ego / Heart would, theoretically, only behave in
a conditioned way until I get "de-conditioned" and in terms of
egoic reactions, I would have no characteristic ways of my own.

In the past, I have been horribly defensive and have tended to
have a very low sense of self-worth and constantly tried to
"prove myself", promising I wouldn't repeat mistakes, only to do
it the next day, if not the next moment.

I've been competitive in personal interactions, without any hope
of succeeding in competition, so I've kept reinforcing my feeling
of being a failure.
Making money has been a terrible challenge and I've been very
dependent on others for my sustenance.

A while ago, I heard Randy Richmond say that completely open
centers are basically not the issue in that person's life. They've
finished with the Karma of that center. Did I grasp what he said
correctly?
I would protest that learning to transcend the ego might be core
to this lifetime and a central problem for me. How do I rise above
the minor egoic concerns and FIND my self-esteem, and strength of
will, regardless of how others are behaving? I feel so vulnerable
to being affected by others, both emotionally (undefined Solar
Plexus), but also in terms of self-direction (undefined G-center)
and I have tended to be obsessed about whether I am loved and
appreciated.

I don't think I can pinpoint definitively how the gate-less Ego
differs from the undefined centers with themes. I'll attempt a
comparison. Characteristically, if in the presence of people who
define me emotionally, (or at least I observe this when
distressed) either I want to cuddle the other person (37) so I
feel safe, or resist them (6) in defiance, or on a deeper more
unconscious level, go through the struggle of whether to accept or
reject them(49), for my own good .... With the auric effect of
defined Ego people or people with whom the Ego becomes defined by
an electromagnetic, my reactions may be more unpredictable and
chaotic. Basically, I've tended to become so overwhelmed that I've
tried to prove I'm OK and sure of something (undefined head) and
worthy of being their friend, and been so defensive and
competitive that I've usually alienated them...

I hope this awareness will assist me to grow beyond the
conditioning and allow me to accept myself fully as I am and let
me LIVE MY TRUE DESIGN.

Yours sincerely, Lasita

>
> ____________________________________________________
> ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
>
> http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/khair-un-nisa%
> 40clara.co.uk
>
>

It would be nice for me if the the karma theory were true as I have 4
open centers! It's important to distinguish between the "me" of the ego
and the "I". Self worth, self esteem, etc. are primarily issues for the
individual, they aren't part of the tribal circuit. The 38-28 and 39-55
channels play a very important biological role in setting the tone of
"self worth".

The G center is very complex and having it defined doesn't necessarily
ensure any particularly strong sense of "self worth". Self identity
perhaps.

I have an open ego, spleen, head and sacral. Frankly it's sometimes
difficult to function in the world at large because the qualities that
are held important by those centers don't really resonate with me. How I
experience those qualities depends mostly on who I'm around, so I've
become very selective about the people in my life. For me there is
nothing inherently stable about those centers - other than building
relationships with the right people so that the conditioning I
experience is somewhat stable.

For example, in the money arena I prefer people who are comfortable with
their relationship to money - whether it's because they have plenty or
don't care much about it. I enjoy competition (an ego attribute) but
only for the sport of it - not in a serious way, so I tend to avoid
people who are serious about competition. I've the 10-20 so "I" is
definitely part of my vocabulary, but the concept of "mine" is nebulous
for me. Don't mistake me as saying it's not part of my life, of course
it is - but for the most part in a pretty low key way.

Everybody is trying to "prove myself". Doesn't matter if we know it or
admit, we are all doing it. It's part of life. We need to prove
ourselves to ourselves and to others in all manner of ways. It's easier
when you understand exactly what about yourself is actually provable.
Then you can invest less energy in "/trying/" to prove yourself and
simply accept that you are doing so. That's one of the big advantages
that HD offers.

kip

Lorenna Shalev wrote:

>--- HDCommunity Group ---
>
>Hi,
>Perhaps the way to go is to give personal examples, so that instead
>of arguing about what the "dogma" is on the subject, we examine our
>own lives.
>
>My chart is in the library as Lasita Shalev, after the end of the
>alphabetical sequence.
>This is the link: http://www.humandesignonline.com/chart/personal/
>Lasita_Shalev.jpeg
>
>I have only spleen and throat defined, with dormant potentials on all
>the other centers EXCEPT the EGO.
>Sometimes dormant potentials (activated gates on undefined centers)
>have been called "themes" because we may behave in characteristic
>ways when our undefined centers become defined by planetary transits
>or people.
>
>The totally open Ego / Heart would, theoretically, only behave in a
>conditioned way until I get "de-conditioned" and in terms of egoic
>reactions, I would have no characteristic ways of my own.
>
>In the past, I have been horribly defensive and have tended to have a
>very low sense of self-worth and constantly tried to "prove myself",
>promising I wouldn't repeat mistakes, only to do it the next day, if
>not the next moment.
>
>I've been competitive in personal interactions, without any hope of
>succeeding in competition, so I've kept reinforcing my feeling of
>being a failure.
>Making money has been a terrible challenge and I've been very
>dependent on others for my sustenance.
>
>A while ago, I heard Randy Richmond say that completely open centers
>are basically not the issue in that person's life. They've finished
>with the Karma of that center. Did I grasp what he said correctly?
>I would protest that learning to transcend the ego might be core to
>this lifetime and a central problem for me. How do I rise above the
>minor egoic concerns and FIND my self-esteem, and strength of will,
>regardless of how others are behaving? I feel so vulnerable to being
>affected by others, both emotionally (undefined Solar Plexus), but
>also in terms of self-direction (undefined G-center) and I have
>tended to be obsessed about whether I am loved and appreciated.
>
>I don't think I can pinpoint definitively how the gate-less Ego
>differs from the undefined centers with themes. I'll attempt a
>comparison. Characteristically, if in the presence of people who
>define me emotionally, (or at least I observe this when distressed)
>either I want to cuddle the other person (37) so I feel safe, or
>resist them (6) in defiance, or on a deeper more unconscious level,
>go through the struggle of whether to accept or reject them(49), for
>my own good .... With the auric effect of defined Ego people or
>people with whom the Ego becomes defined by an electromagnetic, my
>reactions may be more unpredictable and chaotic. Basically, I've
>tended to become so overwhelmed that I've tried to prove I'm OK and
>sure of something (undefined head) and worthy of being their friend,
>and been so defensive and competitive that I've usually alienated
>them...
>
>I hope this awareness will assist me to grow beyond the conditioning
>and allow me to accept myself fully as I am and let me LIVE MY TRUE
>DESIGN.
>
>Yours sincerely, Lasita
>____________________________________________________
>ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
>
>http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/kipwin%40cox.net
>
>
>

--
kipwin@cox.net

Webmaster California Dreaming
[http://www.califmall.com]

Webmaster 3 Birds Studio Kids Site
[http://www.countryfriends.org/KWIndex.html]

Webmaster Mingei International Museum
[http://www.mingei.org]

Webmaster COVA ARTS
[http://www.califmall.com/cova1.html]

Hi.
I have a completely open Head Ctr. and find it almost impossible
not to answer your questions.
Genoa

On May 19, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Mariea.Butler wrote:

> --- HDCommunity Group ---
> Hi Kip, and all,
> I am struggling with the notion of no karma attached to open
> centers. In
> the manual, and during my course LD and HDA, there was no such
> differentiation drawn.
> I have to find things out for myself and so I wonder would you
> would share
> something of your health history> it might throw some light on the
> issue.
> I ask because I have a client soon who holds a completely open splenic
> center. and although it is my main definition - Spleen - G. I was
> ill as a
> young child, had an allergic reaction to penicillin. I have clients
> and
> friends with open spleens who don't seem to have had too bad a time
> health
> wise. So you see I'm on a gathering info mission.
> With regard to the open ego, I can say that it has probably been
> one of the
> greatest gifts of HD. for me to find I didn't have a defined ego
> (though have
> the Ego gate 26 L.2. ) I don't make promises, now and can feel a
> strengthening of the heart accordingly. Much relief too, with
> understanding
> the inconsistent will-power I experience. -
> M.ariea.---- Original Message -----
> From: "kip winsett"
> To: "HD Community Email Chat"
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [HDCommunity] Gateless centers
>
>
>> --- HDCommunity Group ---
>> It would be nice for me if the the karma theory were true as I have 4
>> open centers! It's important to distinguish between the "me" of
>> the ego
>> and the "I". Self worth, self esteem, etc. are primarily issues
>> for the
>> individual, they aren't part of the tribal circuit. The 38-28 and
>> 39-55
>> channels play a very important biological role in setting the tone of
>> "self worth".
>>
>> The G center is very complex and having it defined doesn't
>> necessarily
>> ensure any particularly strong sense of "self worth". Self identity
>> perhaps.
>>
>> I have an open ego, spleen, head and sacral. Frankly it's sometimes
>> difficult to function in the world at large because the qualities
>> that
>> are held important by those centers don't really resonate with me.
>> How I
>> experience those qualities depends mostly on who I'm around, so I've
>> become very selective about the people in my life. For me there is
>> nothing inherently stable about those centers - other than building
>> relationships with the right people so that the conditioning I
>> experience is somewhat stable.
>>
>> For example, in the money arena I prefer people who are
>> comfortable with
>> their relationship to money - whether it's because they have
>> plenty or
>> don't care much about it. I enjoy competition (an ego attribute) but
>> only for the sport of it - not in a serious way, so I tend to avoid
>> people who are serious about competition. I've the 10-20 so "I" is
>> definitely part of my vocabulary, but the concept of "mine" is
>> nebulous
>> for me. Don't mistake me as saying it's not part of my life, of
>> course
>> it is - but for the most part in a pretty low key way.
>>
>> Everybody is trying to "prove myself". Doesn't matter if we know
>> it or
>> admit, we are all doing it. It's part of life. We need to prove
>> ourselves to ourselves and to others in all manner of ways. It's
>> easier
>> when you understand exactly what about yourself is actually provable.
>> Then you can invest less energy in "/trying/" to prove yourself and
>> simply accept that you are doing so. That's one of the big advantages
>> that HD offers.
>>
>> kip
>>
>> Lorenna Shalev wrote:
>>
>>> --- HDCommunity Group ---
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Perhaps the way to go is to give personal examples, so that instead
>>> of arguing about what the "dogma" is on the subject, we examine our
>>> own lives.
>>>
>>> My chart is in the library as Lasita Shalev, after the end of the
>>> alphabetical sequence.
>>> This is the link: http://www.humandesignonline.com/chart/personal/
>>> Lasita_Shalev.jpeg
>>>
>>> I have only spleen and throat defined, with dormant potentials on
>>> all
>>> the other centers EXCEPT the EGO.
>>> Sometimes dormant potentials (activated gates on undefined centers)
>>> have been called "themes" because we may behave in characteristic
>>> ways when our undefined centers become defined by planetary transits
>>> or people.
>>>
>>> The totally open Ego / Heart would, theoretically, only behave in a
>>> conditioned way until I get "de-conditioned" and in terms of egoic
>>> reactions, I would have no characteristic ways of my own.
>>>
>>> In the past, I have been horribly defensive and have tended to
>>> have a
>>> very low sense of self-worth and constantly tried to "prove
>>> myself",
>>> promising I wouldn't repeat mistakes, only to do it the next day, if
>>> not the next moment.
>>>
>>> I've been competitive in personal interactions, without any hope of
>>> succeeding in competition, so I've kept reinforcing my feeling of
>>> being a failure.
>>> Making money has been a terrible challenge and I've been very
>>> dependent on others for my sustenance.
>>>
>>> A while ago, I heard Randy Richmond say that completely open centers
>>> are basically not the issue in that person's life. They've finished
>>> with the Karma of that center. Did I grasp what he said correctly?
>>> I would protest that learning to transcend the ego might be core to
>>> this lifetime and a central problem for me. How do I rise above the
>>> minor egoic concerns and FIND my self-esteem, and strength of will,
>>> regardless of how others are behaving? I feel so vulnerable to being
>>> affected by others, both emotionally (undefined Solar Plexus), but
>>> also in terms of self-direction (undefined G-center) and I have
>>> tended to be obsessed about whether I am loved and appreciated.
>>>
>>> I don't think I can pinpoint definitively how the gate-less Ego
>>> differs from the undefined centers with themes. I'll attempt a
>>> comparison. Characteristically, if in the presence of people who
>>> define me emotionally, (or at least I observe this when distressed)
>>> either I want to cuddle the other person (37) so I feel safe, or
>>> resist them (6) in defiance, or on a deeper more unconscious level,
>>> go through the struggle of whether to accept or reject them(49), for
>>> my own good .... With the auric effect of defined Ego people or
>>> people with whom the Ego becomes defined by an electromagnetic, my
>>> reactions may be more unpredictable and chaotic. Basically, I've
>>> tended to become so overwhelmed that I've tried to prove I'm OK and
>>> sure of something (undefined head) and worthy of being their friend,
>>> and been so defensive and competitive that I've usually alienated
>>> them...
>>>
>>> I hope this awareness will assist me to grow beyond the conditioning
>>> and allow me to accept myself fully as I am and let me LIVE MY TRUE
>>> DESIGN.
>>>
>>> Yours sincerely, Lasita
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
>>>
>>> http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/kipwin%
>>> 40cox.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> kipwin@cox.net
>>
>> Webmaster California Dreaming
>> [http://www.califmall.com]
>>
>> Webmaster 3 Birds Studio Kids Site
>> [http://www.countryfriends.org/KWIndex.html]
>>
>> Webmaster Mingei International Museum
>> [http://www.mingei.org]
>>
>> Webmaster COVA ARTS
>> [http://www.califmall.com/cova1.html]
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
>>
>>
> http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/mariea.butler%
> 40getreal.co.uk
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
>
> http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/genoabliven%
> 40mac.com

Dear Mariea,

A comforting thought, to be off the hook. Reading your mail, it came to me
that we are really never off the hook, though we can achieve a respite for
a while by imagining that we are. And we deserve that respite! Life can be
really hard work!
This HD process helps me see that we are constantly engaged with our
conditioning (or deconditioning and reconditioning, as Jagruti was saying
the other day), and the more I follow my Strategy and Authority, and the
more honest about myself I become, the more clear it is how we really are
fixed on multitudinous hooks from the moment we arrive on this planet. Most
of these hooks aren't even really meant for us, that is, the Real Self of
us. What a business! And all to feed the consciousness becoming self-aware!
Who thought this up??

Going back to what Genoa said, in his beautifully perfect response to the
topic of Open Centres. Thank you for that encapsulation - it was such a
great example, for me, of how the Open Head works. It also made me laugh
and chuckle for a long time. I too have a completely Open Head with no
dormant gates, so I recognise and know that feeling, of the driving urge to
answer all and sundry, deep and shallow questions from whoever, is so
subtle (because I grew up with it, like the wallpaper you stop noticing
after a few years) which makes it enormously powerful. I also, just to cap
this off nicely, have a similarly completely Open Root. What a joke!
Urgently trying to get through stuff, specially all those questions! The
pressure!!!...with soft squishy jammy me in the middle! It has been so good
to begin sensing these "Terrible Twins" in me, and recognise that I just
don't have to go with that, but just lean back in the let-it-go-easy chair.
By following my Strategy and Authority, I find there are questions I can
ask and answer, tasks I can appropriately drive through, but I can now
navigate through the way I should, and not be drawn into the reefs and
sandbanks so often. It still feels odd, not rushing to get things done, and
not trying to think up "questions" or "answers" that don't belong to me.
Sometimes I still ask other people's questions, which I picked up through
my Open Head and Open Mind, but I now see that process at work, as if I am
part of a "Group Mind". That experiencing "me" as part of a greater Being
is actually very satisfying. There is a sense that it is the pattern
towards which humanity is growing, the combining and resynthesising of more
and more individuals into a vast complexity that is so simple and obvious
when you are in it. That makes me very grateful for having this wonderful
Open head, not fixed, not consistent, not reliable, just working its own
way more and more sensitively towards being of service to some greater
Beingness/Human-ness. Whey-up, man!? Who is writing all this stuff? Where
did that last bit come from? Oh, well, no use trying to explain that - it
just happens, and it feels right enough.

Don.

At 23:40 21/05/2006 +0100, you wrote:
>--- HDCommunity Group ---
>I intended to write Genoa in my response yesterday do. Anyway I heard
>recently the Gods get angry when something is too perfect. So I'm off the
>hook with that.
>Mariea.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mariea.Butler"
>To: "HD Community Email Chat"
>Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:54 AM
>Subject: Re: [HDCommunity] Gateless centers

I intended to write Genoa in my response yesterday do. Anyway I heard
recently the Gods get angry when something is too perfect. So I'm off the
hook with that.
Mariea.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mariea.Butler"
To: "HD Community Email Chat"
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [HDCommunity] Gateless centers

> --- HDCommunity Group ---
> Thanks Kip,
> I experience your openness as a real gift and I think we've isolated a
key
> ingredient in differentiating the open from the defined - awareness. This
> kind of shareing , where we gain access to each- others life experience,
> constitutes best use of this medium.
> It is a real life saver for me, as a post roof 4/6 operating now out of
the
> 2/4 thematic. Especially since try as |I might I can never manage to
> connect with anything on offer, never access any free samples and never
> manage to get a reply from mail men or anybody there in 'Head Office'.
> Genoa, when I read your mail, I remembered that I too have a completely
open
> head. I couldn't believe I'd forgotten this.We've had a lot of definition
> via gates from the head in recent times though so I can see how it
happened.
> As such I accept that this issue over the open centers is resolvable in
two
> ways. One we could receive more information from who ever it was that
> started it. Two I can live with it and allow it and it will resolve itself
> in time.
> I could trust my intuition which tells me that the open centers are the
most
> sensitive areas in ones design therefore the karma will depend on the
> conditioning field they come into touch with at birth.
> I'd like to complete the picture with respect to the info. I gave on my
> defined spleen yesterday. There is very good reason why I should be A
> typical. That is my mum had a stillborn baby before she conceived me. I
> picked up in the womb a lot of sadness and came here already in trouble
> health wise. I was 4 before they diagnosed a weeping appendix, and it was
> during the operation to remove it I had my near death experience. |I am
> accordingly cautious over giving out info. in a 'de-facto way' about the
> spleen center, and rather than finding this a drawback it has made me
> appreciate that the actual personal history or bio-graphy of the person
> needs to be allowed for in giving a design reading.
>
> My Best to all. Mariea.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Genoa Bliven"
> To: "HD Community Email Chat"
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [HDCommunity] Gateless centers
>
>
> > --- HDCommunity Group ---
> > Hi.
> > I have a completely open Head Ctr. and find it almost impossible
> > not to answer your questions.
> > Genoa
> >
> >
> > On May 19, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Mariea.Butler wrote:
> >
> > > --- HDCommunity Group ---
> > > Hi Kip, and all,
> > > I am struggling with the notion of no karma attached to open
> > > centers. In
> > > the manual, and during my course LD and HDA, there was no such
> > > differentiation drawn.
> > > I have to find things out for myself and so I wonder would you
> > > would share
> > > something of your health history> it might throw some light on the
> > > issue.
> > > I ask because I have a client soon who holds a completely open splenic
> > > center. and although it is my main definition - Spleen - G. I was
> > > ill as a
> > > young child, had an allergic reaction to penicillin. I have clients
> > > and
> > > friends with open spleens who don't seem to have had too bad a time
> > > health
> > > wise. So you see I'm on a gathering info mission.
> > > With regard to the open ego, I can say that it has probably been
> > > one of the
> > > greatest gifts of HD. for me to find I didn't have a defined ego
> > > (though have
> > > the Ego gate 26 L.2. ) I don't make promises, now and can feel a
> > > strengthening of the heart accordingly. Much relief too, with
> > > understanding
> > > the inconsistent will-power I experience. -
> > > M.ariea.---- Original Message -----
> > > From: "kip winsett"
> > > To: "HD Community Email Chat"
> > > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 9:18 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [HDCommunity] Gateless centers
> > >
> > >
> > >> --- HDCommunity Group ---
> > >> It would be nice for me if the the karma theory were true as I have 4
> > >> open centers! It's important to distinguish between the "me" of
> > >> the ego
> > >> and the "I". Self worth, self esteem, etc. are primarily issues
> > >> for the
> > >> individual, they aren't part of the tribal circuit. The 38-28 and
> > >> 39-55
> > >> channels play a very important biological role in setting the tone of
> > >> "self worth".
> > >>
> > >> The G center is very complex and having it defined doesn't
> > >> necessarily
> > >> ensure any particularly strong sense of "self worth". Self identity
> > >> perhaps.
> > >>
> > >> I have an open ego, spleen, head and sacral. Frankly it's sometimes
> > >> difficult to function in the world at large because the qualities
> > >> that
> > >> are held important by those centers don't really resonate with me.
> > >> How I
> > >> experience those qualities depends mostly on who I'm around, so I've
> > >> become very selective about the people in my life. For me there is
> > >> nothing inherently stable about those centers - other than building
> > >> relationships with the right people so that the conditioning I
> > >> experience is somewhat stable.
> > >>
> > >> For example, in the money arena I prefer people who are
> > >> comfortable with
> > >> their relationship to money - whether it's because they have
> > >> plenty or
> > >> don't care much about it. I enjoy competition (an ego attribute) but
> > >> only for the sport of it - not in a serious way, so I tend to avoid
> > >> people who are serious about competition. I've the 10-20 so "I" is
> > >> definitely part of my vocabulary, but the concept of "mine" is
> > >> nebulous
> > >> for me. Don't mistake me as saying it's not part of my life, of
> > >> course
> > >> it is - but for the most part in a pretty low key way.
> > >>
> > >> Everybody is trying to "prove myself". Doesn't matter if we know
> > >> it or
> > >> admit, we are all doing it. It's part of life. We need to prove
> > >> ourselves to ourselves and to others in all manner of ways. It's
> > >> easier
> > >> when you understand exactly what about yourself is actually provable.
> > >> Then you can invest less energy in "/trying/" to prove yourself and
> > >> simply accept that you are doing so. That's one of the big advantages
> > >> that HD offers.
> > >>
> > >> kip
> > >>
> > >> Lorenna Shalev wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> --- HDCommunity Group ---
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>> Perhaps the way to go is to give personal examples, so that instead
> > >>> of arguing about what the "dogma" is on the subject, we examine our
> > >>> own lives.
> > >>>
> > >>> My chart is in the library as Lasita Shalev, after the end of the
> > >>> alphabetical sequence.
> > >>> This is the link: http://www.humandesignonline.com/chart/personal/
> > >>> Lasita_Shalev.jpeg
> > >>>
> > >>> I have only spleen and throat defined, with dormant potentials on
> > >>> all
> > >>> the other centers EXCEPT the EGO.
> > >>> Sometimes dormant potentials (activated gates on undefined centers)
> > >>> have been called "themes" because we may behave in characteristic
> > >>> ways when our undefined centers become defined by planetary transits
> > >>> or people.
> > >>>
> > >>> The totally open Ego / Heart would, theoretically, only behave in a
> > >>> conditioned way until I get "de-conditioned" and in terms of egoic
> > >>> reactions, I would have no characteristic ways of my own.
> > >>>
> > >>> In the past, I have been horribly defensive and have tended to
> > >>> have a
> > >>> very low sense of self-worth and constantly tried to "prove
> > >>> myself",
> > >>> promising I wouldn't repeat mistakes, only to do it the next day, if
> > >>> not the next moment.
> > >>>
> > >>> I've been competitive in personal interactions, without any hope of
> > >>> succeeding in competition, so I've kept reinforcing my feeling of
> > >>> being a failure.
> > >>> Making money has been a terrible challenge and I've been very
> > >>> dependent on others for my sustenance.
> > >>>
> > >>> A while ago, I heard Randy Richmond say that completely open centers
> > >>> are basically not the issue in that person's life. They've finished
> > >>> with the Karma of that center. Did I grasp what he said correctly?
> > >>> I would protest that learning to transcend the ego might be core to
> > >>> this lifetime and a central problem for me. How do I rise above the
> > >>> minor egoic concerns and FIND my self-esteem, and strength of will,
> > >>> regardless of how others are behaving? I feel so vulnerable to being
> > >>> affected by others, both emotionally (undefined Solar Plexus), but
> > >>> also in terms of self-direction (undefined G-center) and I have
> > >>> tended to be obsessed about whether I am loved and appreciated.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't think I can pinpoint definitively how the gate-less Ego
> > >>> differs from the undefined centers with themes. I'll attempt a
> > >>> comparison. Characteristically, if in the presence of people who
> > >>> define me emotionally, (or at least I observe this when distressed)
> > >>> either I want to cuddle the other person (37) so I feel safe, or
> > >>> resist them (6) in defiance, or on a deeper more unconscious level,
> > >>> go through the struggle of whether to accept or reject them(49), for
> > >>> my own good .... With the auric effect of defined Ego people or
> > >>> people with whom the Ego becomes defined by an electromagnetic, my
> > >>> reactions may be more unpredictable and chaotic. Basically, I've
> > >>> tended to become so overwhelmed that I've tried to prove I'm OK and
> > >>> sure of something (undefined head) and worthy of being their friend,
> > >>> and been so defensive and competitive that I've usually alienated
> > >>> them...
> > >>>
> > >>> I hope this awareness will assist me to grow beyond the conditioning
> > >>> and allow me to accept myself fully as I am and let me LIVE MY TRUE
> > >>> DESIGN.
> > >>>
> > >>> Yours sincerely, Lasita
> > >>> ____________________________________________________
> > >>> ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
> > >>>
> > >>> http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/kipwin%
> > >>> 40cox.net
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> kipwin@cox.net
> > >>
> > >> Webmaster California Dreaming
> > >> [http://www.califmall.com]
> > >>
> > >> Webmaster 3 Birds Studio Kids Site
> > >> [http://www.countryfriends.org/KWIndex.html]
> > >>
> > >> Webmaster Mingei International Museum
> > >> [http://www.mingei.org]
> > >>
> > >> Webmaster COVA ARTS
> > >> [http://www.califmall.com/cova1.html]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ____________________________________________________
> > >> ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
> > >>
> > >>
> > > http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/mariea.butler%
> > > 40getreal.co.uk
> > >>
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________
> > > ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
> > >
> > > http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/genoabliven%
> > > 40mac.com
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
> >
> >
>
http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/mariea.butler%40getreal.co.uk
> >
>
> ____________________________________________________
> ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
>
>
http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/mariea.butler%40getreal.co.uk
>

Many thanks Kahir,
I am inspired by your openness, and find all true paths of knowledge are
somehow converging, if we allow them by inclusion, and acknowledgement. With
respect to HD. the interplay of defined and undefined centers seem to lead
to a place of non-duality, even as it postulates 'we live in a Bi verse'.
I am mulling (G.24)other considerations with respect to the information in
your reply.
Best Mariea
theSimmonds"
To: "HD Community Email Chat"
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [HDCommunity] Gateless Centers

> --- HDCommunity Group ---
> Hi Mariea,
>
> I have three completely open centres, but none of them are spleen or
> solarplex. I have open head (with undefined ajna), G and heart
> centre. I believe myself to be a 2/4 emotional generator, with just
> the 59/6 defined (with an outside chance that I may be a reflector).
>
> I'm probably more aware of how having an undefined mind affects me
> than the open head centre. I'm very interested in the workings of
> the mind and in the nature of the self (the 'who am I?' question) and
> follow Advaita Vedanta. At times I can appear to be psychic and
> able to predict what certain people are about to say. I sometimes
> struggle to remember a complicated question or argument, but on the
> other hand, I am very quick to understand concepts and can make
> connections very quickly. I have a tendency to forget what it was I
> went into a room for - and to leave things unfinished (but then I
> have the 53 and not the 42), so that may intensify things. My
> spiritual beliefs have evolved over quite a period of time.
>
> After I divorced following a long marriage, I found it difficult to
> know who I was and went on a voyage of discovery. I find it very
> easy to empathise with people and I am in general very tolerant and
> believe these are both the effect of having an open G. I admit to
> finding myself rather envious of people who have a very strong sense
> of self.
>
> As for the open heart centre, I still find myself having an
> inconsistent willpower, which I still find difficult, although I have
> pockets of consistency (for instance recycling). I have issues at
> times with feeling lovable and worthy. I understand that it's
> supposed to mean that I'm hard to impress, and I think that this is
> probably true, but it doesn't mean that I can't appreciate people,
> although I don't think I'm very good at expressing it.
>
> Best
>
> Khair-un-Nisa
>
>
>
>
> On 17 May 2006, at 00:49, Mariea.Butler wrote:
>
> > --- HDCommunity Group ---
> > Hello, I am interested to follow up the discussion on the
> > completely open center. I would like to invite people who have
> > such in their design, to contribute. Just now something on the
> > open spleen, and solarplex would be of great assistance.
> > Best to all
> > Mariea.
> > ____________________________________________________
> > ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
> >
> > http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/khair-un-nisa%
> > 40clara.co.uk
> >
> >
>
> ____________________________________________________
> ARCHIVES, UNSUBSCRIBE, ACCOUNT SETTINGS:
>
>
http://lists.thefoco.com/mailman/options/hdcommunity/mariea.butler%40getreal.co.uk
>